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username
03-15-2016, 12:25 PM
He is almost 11.

He loves tennis( he is playing tournaments- he wants to be the best player in the world), sports cars ( watching top gear you tube videos and also trying to spot sports cars on the road and name their brand and model, while he is sitting in the car next to me), and billiards(likes to watch snooker on eurosport and we play pool together)

He is also very interested to learn about sex and drugs.Asking a lot of questions about those subjects.

He does not like school, even though he manages to get good grades.
His spelling is poor and he makes careless mistakes all the time.
He is very good both at creative writing and math but he will write and do math only if he has to.
He does not like reading,but he can read 150 pages in a day if he has to and understand the context.
He is not social but also not asocial.
He is very sensitive. If he is not treated right from his friends or teachers his mood will go way down and consequently his performance in tennis or school.

Any ideas how to cultivate more his interests or create new interests as well?
What are your experiences with your INTP children?

LordLatch
03-15-2016, 05:43 PM
Think how you cultivate you own interests and apply that to your diminutive copy.

To really help him in life, you should help him develop his 'j' as that will be key to his 'success.'

I think we get 'p' when we feel we aren't in control of our lives and someone else's demands(overbearing mother in my case) on us can change our whole day at any moment.

Steer him away from that and he'll do great.

Sistamatic
03-15-2016, 07:56 PM
He is almost 11.

He loves tennis( he is playing tournaments- he wants to be the best player in the world), sports cars ( watching top gear you tube videos and also trying to spot sports cars on the road and name their brand and model, while he is sitting in the car next to me), and billiards(likes to watch snooker on eurosport and we play pool together)

He is also very interested to learn about sex and drugs.Asking a lot of questions about those subjects.

He does not like school, even though he manages to get good grades.
His spelling is poor and he makes careless mistakes all the time.
He is very good both at creative writing and math but he will write and do math only if he has to.
He does not like reading,but he can read 150 pages in a day if he has to and understand the context.
He is not social but also not asocial.
He is very sensitive. If he is not treated right from his friends or teachers his mood will go way down and consequently his performance in tennis or school.

Any ideas how to cultivate more his interests or create new interests as well?
What are your experiences with your INTP children?

My brother and I are both INTPs and both here on this site. My brother's INTP son, who is now 20, is registered here but rarely visits because he has so much going on.

Never lie to him to prevent him from doing drugs or having sex, or to manipulate him into thinking anything you want him to think. When he asks questions about drugs and sex, help him research reality. If you oversell the evil of pot and he finds out, he'll assume you are also overselling the evil of heroine. Give him good data and he'll generally make good decisions. (He's going to make mistakes too, but help him learn from them and he won't make them twice.)

School sucks (And consider this is a college professor telling you this). INTPs are not common, and the establishment tries to make school work for the majority. We INTPs LIKE to gather data (unlike most people), but we need to be left the hell alone to process it, and school is a constant barrage. When I play tabletop games with my friends, I often have to leave the room to level up my character or read a description because there is too much going on around me. I have to take all my real work home with me because the office at work is open plan and I cannot focus there. Some lucky INTPs are good at tuning out their surroundings so they can be alone in a room full of people. I never did get the trick of that though.

My brother and I are both spellchecker dependent. Spelling is arbitrary. INTPs aren't good at arbitrary, but the other side of that coin is that they are brilliant at figuring out things that aren't arbitrary. When I lecture, I tell my classroom they have to be my crowdsource spellchecker because blackboards don't have spellcheck. There is no shame in it, and I find my students don't mind a bit that I'm human. In a world full of spellcheckers, I wouldn't worry too much about it. He may put his shirt on inside out from time to time (for the rest of his life), but he will always notice the things that are important to him.

We spent a whole day in first grade learning how to subtract 3 digit numbers from 3 digit numbers. I already knew how and the entire day was so painfully boring I'd have opted for waterboarding if given a choice. We had a test on it the next day. The answer to the first problem was seven. There was a whole page of these freaking things and I was just done with it, so I put 7 for every answer. They thought I was too stupid to figure it out, but I had just dug in my heels. They thought I couldn't read because I didn't know where we were whenever it was my turn...I was already reading Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh and they were taking turns sounding out "see spot run." They gave me an IQ test because they thought I was mentally disabled, and they found it was the opposite. They made me repeat the IQ test because they thought there was an error. Then they wouldn't let me in the gifted program because I failed a psych evaluation. (it was the 70s...things were different then) I barely graduated from HS. I failed out of college the first go-round. It wasn't until I was given a choice about what to do that I began to excel. My nephew did better (had an INTP parent, so that helped), but he had his problems too. He speaks at least a dozen languages now, and he didn't learn any of them in a classroom. He is self taught. But the only class he ever had trouble in was HS Spanish. He was teaching himself Japanese and had already learned to speak Korean when he was taking Spanish, and he was enthusiastic about learning Spanish at first. To further challenge himself, he decided to answer his Spanish homework in Japanese in addition to Spanish. His teacher thought he was being a smartass and gave him terrible marks in spite of his correct Spanish answers. For years, Spanish became the only language he couldn't learn. He eventually overcame it, but the point here is that you can poison a thing for an INTP by making it annoying. If your son shows an extreme interest in something, encourage him in it and you will be amazed how far he goes with it. I think that if someone had said to me, "Yes, it is slow and boring, but there is nothing we can do about that. Just tolerate it and do what it takes to get good marks so that you'll be given more choices when the time comes," that I might have seen them as ally instead of another enemy. It's not, "Do this or else." It's "Here's why you need to do this...here's how doing this can work for you eventually." No sugar coating the reality, just explain the truth about why he has to put up with it.

As for friends, expect him to have a couple of close friends and to barely notice anyone else. Introverts generally have a small well of social energy to draw from. They can be gregarious...until the well runs dry. Bereft of recharge time, the inner asshole emerges to drive everyone away.

And to build on what lordlatch is saying, that J aspect is so important. The trick to overcoming the missing J isn't to try to impose J rule on him, but to teach him how to build that J planning and implementation for himself.

GnarlFox
03-15-2016, 11:04 PM
Give him the opportunity to observe things that he wouldn't guess he'd find interesting beforehand.

username
03-16-2016, 08:26 AM
My brother and I are both INTPs and both here on this site. My brother's INTP son, who is now 20, is registered here but rarely visits because he has so much going on.

Never lie to him to prevent him from doing drugs or having sex, or to manipulate him into thinking anything you want him to think. When he asks questions about drugs and sex, help him research reality. If you oversell the evil of pot and he finds out, he'll assume you are also overselling the evil of heroine. Give him good data and he'll generally make good decisions. (He's going to make mistakes too, but help him learn from them and he won't make them twice.)

School sucks (And consider this is a college professor telling you this). INTPs are not common, and the establishment tries to make school work for the majority. We INTPs LIKE to gather data (unlike most people), but we need to be left the hell alone to process it, and school is a constant barrage. When I play tabletop games with my friends, I often have to leave the room to level up my character or read a description because there is too much going on around me. I have to take all my real work home with me because the office at work is open plan and I cannot focus there. Some lucky INTPs are good at tuning out their surroundings so they can be alone in a room full of people. I never did get the trick of that though.

My brother and I are both spellchecker dependent. Spelling is arbitrary. INTPs aren't good at arbitrary, but the other side of that coin is that they are brilliant at figuring out things that aren't arbitrary. When I lecture, I tell my classroom they have to be my crowdsource spellchecker because blackboards don't have spellcheck. There is no shame in it, and I find my students don't mind a bit that I'm human. In a world full of spellcheckers, I wouldn't worry too much about it. He may put his shirt on inside out from time to time (for the rest of his life), but he will always notice the things that are important to him.

We spent a whole day in first grade learning how to subtract 3 digit numbers from 3 digit numbers. I already knew how and the entire day was so painfully boring I'd have opted for waterboarding if given a choice. We had a test on it the next day. The answer to the first problem was seven. There was a whole page of these freaking things and I was just done with it, so I put 7 for every answer. They thought I was too stupid to figure it out, but I had just dug in my heels. They thought I couldn't read because I didn't know where we were whenever it was my turn...I was already reading Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of Nimh and they were taking turns sounding out "see spot run." They gave me an IQ test because they thought I was mentally disabled, and they found it was the opposite. They made me repeat the IQ test because they thought there was an error. Then they wouldn't let me in the gifted program because I failed a psych evaluation. (it was the 70s...things were different then) I barely graduated from HS. I failed out of college the first go-round. It wasn't until I was given a choice about what to do that I began to excel. My nephew did better (had an INTP parent, so that helped), but he had his problems too. He speaks at least a dozen languages now, and he didn't learn any of them in a classroom. He is self taught. But the only class he ever had trouble in was HS Spanish. He was teaching himself Japanese and had already learned to speak Korean when he was taking Spanish, and he was enthusiastic about learning Spanish at first. To further challenge himself, he decided to answer his Spanish homework in Japanese in addition to Spanish. His teacher thought he was being a smartass and gave him terrible marks in spite of his correct Spanish answers. For years, Spanish became the only language he couldn't learn. He eventually overcame it, but the point here is that you can poison a thing for an INTP by making it annoying. If your son shows an extreme interest in something, encourage him in it and you will be amazed how far he goes with it. I think that if someone had said to me, "Yes, it is slow and boring, but there is nothing we can do about that. Just tolerate it and do what it takes to get good marks so that you'll be given more choices when the time comes," that I might have seen them as ally instead of another enemy. It's not, "Do this or else." It's "Here's why you need to do this...here's how doing this can work for you eventually." No sugar coating the reality, just explain the truth about why he has to put up with it.

As for friends, expect him to have a couple of close friends and to barely notice anyone else. Introverts generally have a small well of social energy to draw from. They can be gregarious...until the well runs dry. Bereft of recharge time, the inner asshole emerges to drive everyone away.

And to build on what lordlatch is saying, that J aspect is so important. The trick to overcoming the missing J isn't to try to impose J rule on him, but to teach him how to build that J planning and implementation for himself.

Very helpful!thanks a lot.

TeresaJ
03-16-2016, 12:17 PM
The only thing I would add to all this is that I wish my parents had done more to help me bolster my weaknesses and explore things I was afraid of. Like socializing and attractive/appropriate dress. I would definitely frame it as "this is an extremely useful skill to master" not "do this or else." and definitely don't expect it of him all the time, but make sure he at least can do it when he needs do/wants to.

Also, while burying himself in books and computer games is both inevitable and essential I would definitely encourage him to keep up with the tennis and other rigorous outdoor activities if tennis loses its charm.

TeresaJ
03-16-2016, 12:22 PM
Oh and one more thing: school didn't have to suck. Especially if you could find some sort of experimental program with other smart kids. INTPs love learning, we just hate bullshit.

Although I suppose that learning to endure bullshit is kind of a skill in itself...

And also at some point you might try to teach him that most people don't operate the same way he does and it will behoove him to try to be patient with their irrationality.

OrionzRevenge
03-16-2016, 02:06 PM
Think how you cultivate you own interests and apply that to your diminutive copy.

...

Yeppers, way leads on to way.

Play to his own passions in a way that develops his Verbal & math skills.

> Get him adult level books on Sports Cars.

> Try to turn him on to the Physics of Pool.
http://billiards.colostate.edu/physics/Alciatore_pool_physics_article.pdf

> Maybe a PC Game like Pure Pool:
http://www.ps4blog.net/wp-content/uploads/pure-pool.jpg


Maybe find Practical math puzzles that would appeal to his interest.
http://www.aplusclick.com/grade14.htm

/2 cents

LordLatch
03-16-2016, 04:01 PM
I talked to my son like an a adult from when he was a toddler. I also always tried to trick him and did little things to make him think. I do the same thing to my dog and that little sucker is wicked smart too.

Hephaestus
03-16-2016, 05:40 PM
^^^+1 on no baby talk. Especially since he's almost 11.

God, can you imagine? You're 10, almost 11, and suddenly all the adults around you start talking to you like you're an infant? How long would it take before you just started slapping everyone, consequences be damned? I'm thinking I might put up with it for an hour, tops, but that's just because I'm really good at ignoring people.


I recommend encouraging him to take advantage of how easy school is and will be for the next 7-9 years or so. Explain that if he learns anything worth knowing, sooner or later, he's going to hit a point where it gets hard--and sooner or later, he's going to fail at something. Primary and secondary education offer training wheels to practice the skills he'll need to get past those walls, but if he doesn't learn them now, he's going to stumble hard later. It's going to be extra embarrassing when the people muddling now manage to muddle past him because they've got a lifetime of learning how to muddle through things they have difficulty comprehending.

Also, I highly recommend encouraging him to learn a foreign language (and a programming language) now. The reason for the latter is obvious, and it might take, it might not. My dad tried to get me into BASIC when I was in the second grade and I just didn't give enough shits about why computers worked to take advantage of the resources he was putting at my disposal. The reason for the former though, is as a safety net.

There is a portion of the population, that regardless of intellect, has enormous difficulty learning foreign languages even to the paltry state of academic standards. I'm one of them. This made satisfying my foreign language requirement for university (which was there for any and every degree offered) a non-trivial barrier to success. Everyone else in my class seemed to be able to put forth the same slack effort I was able to get away with for most of my other classes and succeed handsomely. I had to dedicate my life to learning the language, and even then it felt like a crapshoot. Sure, I understood things at a deeper level than my peers, and saw elements of structure they simply used blindly. I enjoyed what I uncovered immensely, but make no mistake, I struggled harder learning natural language than any other academic discipline. Computational and Synthetic Biology were easier, and I scraped by on good will and that they were class I took for entertainment and enrichment.

If, however, I'd undertaken the task at a younger age, and spent a summer or two doing what I ultimately spent a couple summers doing at university: 5-6 days a week studying/practicing 16-20 hours a day for 8 weeks--I could have coasted along by taking it like a refresher course instead of wholly new material.

This isn't to say your son is going to be one of us unlucky types, but he might be, and if he's willing to lay the groundwork now, he'll have more time to enjoy college if and when he gets there.

Granted, at that age, summers are precious and semi-eternal wonderlands. It will be a tough sell unless you can link it strongly and directly to other things he wants to do.

mthomps
03-19-2016, 02:36 PM
If the boy is physically gifted have him play football and have him join a school chess club. Tell him they are similar and to figure out why.

Teach him to use his analytical nature to make friends. Tell him to ask questions constantly to his peers/friends and in the classroom and when given a response, end the situation by making the other party laugh.

When bullied and vocalization fails, tell him how to look the kid in the eye, and tell him to suck his dick, then look at and wink at the nearest girl and STRUT away.

This may sound crude but you can learn a lot from these simple problems kids face when the kid has a base to use when reacting.


COnfident, analytical, yet fun. He can have many friends.

LordLatch
03-19-2016, 02:48 PM
When I was 11, my dad showed me his wire wrap computer(which he built himself) and we wrote a program together in hex machine language inputting it with a calculator keyboard.
http://www.derivedlogic.com/Z80%20Microcomputer/DSC03118.jpg

I still remember how it worked and why. That may have been the most influential positive hour of my life.

Limes
03-19-2016, 06:41 PM
Teach him to make to do lists and to be more schedule oriented. No more of this winging it, or "let's see how it turns out" crap.
Tell him there's something wrong with his P-ness.

username
05-04-2016, 12:22 PM
He is playing tennis for the last 3 years.
He has good technique.
He has been improving at practice but... whenever he plays tournaments, during the games he gets anxious, nervous, angry, dissapointed and he keeps losing and losing.
He cannot control his emotions and that causes him to lose his concentration and lose.
Again and again.
We talked to him again and again.
He understands but only in theory.
He cannot implement emotional control.
Even though i know he has potential to be a good player i am thinking of withdrawing him from tennis because the whole situation is too stressful both for him and me and my wife.

Do you think there is a possibility that he will ever manage to control his emotions? If yes, how?

It is indeed very funny for anyone to consider that INTPs are not affected by emotions.
Very, very funny.
Emotions run very deep in him and his judjment is constantly clouded by them whenever he plays tennis.

TeresaJ
05-04-2016, 01:33 PM
Totally not worth the stress. Maybe don't quit tennis entirely but only play for fun, not competition. Controlling his emotions will come with time. ...I think it's a paradox for INTPs in that we resist our emotions because we cannot control them so they only get more out of control. He'll have to learn how to accept them and work with them.

TeresaJ
05-04-2016, 02:55 PM
Amendment: Definitely don't quit tennis but scale way back on the competition. The trick will be to relieve the stress without totally taking the easy way out. Maybe substitute some other form of competition. He needs to learn to manage stress by dealing with it in smaller doses probably, so that it doesn't overwhelm him but he doesn't avoid it entirely. There have actually been some studies that came out recently about how different people respond to stress, so maybe look into that as well.

scarydoor
05-04-2016, 08:38 PM
I was going to suggest you get him some good books, but then I saw that you say he doesn't like reading much. Is that perhaps because he hasn't been directed to any good ones? I found a lot of inspiration from books such as Dune, Stranger in a Strange Land, some Freidrich Nietzsche stuff. I thought there were some quite interesting ideas in those books and I sort of tried to model myself on the characters a little bit. But he might be too young for those just now.

I would advise to help enable him to explore whatever curiosities he has. I think that when I was younger, I had very little idea of what interesting things existed out in the world. I think that as a kid, you just don't really have the mental complexity or depth of knowledge to be able to catch much of a glimpse. So I would advise to perhaps listen to his interests and then help to provide him with an assortment of avenues he can choose to choose from to progress further down that way. Personally I like to just drown in options, so perhaps he would as well. I think that overall, the most important thing is probably for him to feel inspired to pursue something.

Obfuscate
07-31-2016, 10:20 AM
What are your experiences with your INTP children?

i checked to see if you still logged in here...is it because the advice was good that you still do? have the things you've read here help you to understand your son better? if so does this understanding lead to "positive results"? you are listed as an intp, do you feel like your son is much like you when you were young?

i'm sorry to perform necromancy on your thread, but i find things like this interesting... i would also like to note that my questions may be considered too personal... please feel free to disregard them...