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Blorg
11-02-2017, 09:01 AM
https://www.tickcounter.com/countdown/349122/mafia-day-5

Player List:
KOI
Light Leak, vanilla townie
lethe
Faust, mafia
Neville, town doctor
Polemarch, vanilla townie
Quicktwist, town cop
Robcore
Squishy
Sinny, vanilla townie
LowIQLogan, vanilla townie
Vison

🎃Only bold votes count.
🎃You can change your vote at any time before the day phase ends.
🎃Unless otherwise specified (see next rule), the sun will set exactly 48 hours after the time of this post, regardless of whether or not I'm around to say that it has ended.
🎃A lynch (or no lynch) occurs when all players have voted and a simple majority is reached. If the deadline is reached without a simple majority, no lynch occurs.
🎃Any of the roles from this list (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Category:Normal_Roles) may be in play.
🎃All night actions must be submitted by PM before the 12 hour night ends (if all votes are submitted sooner, the next day will start sooner). If I have not heard from you, I will presume you are not taking any action.
🎃Do not quote, fabricate, or refer to my PM's.
🎃If you feel an overwhelming compulsion to do something that could possibly be considered against the rules, ask me about it first via PM.
🎃If you believe a mod error has been made or you disagree with any (in)action I took, please PM me immediately.
🎃I won't answer any questions about another player's role.
🎃If you have any questions about your role pm, please ask them privately.
🎃Do not talk about this game anywhere else.
🎃Keep personal attacks to a minimum. Do not bring drama from elsewhere on the forum into this game.
🎃Do not meta-game by referencing me or what you perceive as my biases; everything is randomized.
🎃Penalties may be placed on your team if you seriously neglect any of these rules.
*rules adapted from mafiascum.net

🎃Daily Fun Fact: "In June 2006 a Rockingham school inquiry was launched after parents complained of the traumatic effects classroom Mafia was having on their fifth-grade children. Davidoff responded to the reports, saying that as a parent who had studied child psychology for 25 years, he felt that the game could "teach kids to distinguish right from wrong", and that the positive message of being honest could overcome the negative effects of an "evil narrator" moderating the game as if it were a scary story." (wikipedia)


summary (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide)

There are 2 teams: mafia and townies. Mafiosos want to kill townies; townies want to kill mafiosos. You'll be told whether you're a townie or mafia in a pm at the start of the game. If you're a townie, you won't know which of the other players are townies and which ones are mafia. If you're mafia, you'll be told (via pm) who the other mafiosos and townies are.

The game is divided into "days" (48 hours each) and "nights" (12 hours each, or until all night actions are received).

Every day, one player can die. During this time, every player - mafia and townie - has the option of discussing suspects/brewing paranoia in the game thread and then bolding the name of his/her prime target, the person they most want to kill. At the end of the day, the person whose name has been bolded by the most players dies (they drift away to the graveyard thread and can't comment on the game anymore). Then, I will publicly reveal the real identity of that person. If they turn out to be a mafioso, yay for the townies. If you're a townie, you'll be shooting in the dark for the first couple of rounds, because there won't be many clues about who the mafiosos are, but slip-ups and insights will accumulate in the thread over time.

Every night, the townies have to go completely silent and cover their eyes, and the mafia gets to kill a townie. They discuss and vote in pm's (and then send the mod (me) the name of the agreed-upon townie). This has to happen by the end of the night. In the next day phase, I will reveal the name of the murdered townie, and discussion in the game thread can resume, with this new evidence in hand.

There are also special roles, which complicate the game. If you have a special role, you'll be told so in the first pm.

The game ends when the townies manage to kill all the mafia, or when the mafia outnumbers the townies.



http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6221/6300162966_a275a625b8_o.gif

Hephaestus
11-02-2017, 05:15 PM
Present thoughts:

lethe: I believe she could get away with being heavily engaged and mafia. Lean town.
Robcore: No strong opinion. Lean slightly scum for safety.
Squishy: Scummy.
Vison: slightly town, but with such low involvement, I'm not working with much.

Lynch or Lose.

Squishy

Squishy
11-02-2017, 05:36 PM
Present thoughts:

lethe: I believe she could get away with being heavily engaged and mafia. Lean town.
Robcore: No strong opinion. Lean slightly scum for safety.
Squishy: Scummy.
Vison: slightly town, but with such low involvement, I'm not working with much.

Lynch or Lose.

Squishy

lol.

And how do you know that it's "lynch or lose"? Only a mafia would know that for certain. There "could" be just 1 mafia left with 2 at the start. Town still doesn't know, but you seem to...

Hephaestus
11-02-2017, 05:42 PM
lol.

And how do you know that it's "lynch or lose"? Only a mafia would know that for certain. There "could" be just 1 mafia left with 2 at the start. Town still doesn't know, but you seem to...

We've already agreed that three mafia makes sense. One is dead. There are five of us. Math.

lethe
11-02-2017, 07:07 PM
Not many people talking, I'm interested in discussing the night kill.... But... I think from a mafia perspective killing LightLeak was the obvious move regardless of her text because we universally trusted her and she wasn't stupid. I don't think it means anything but if anyone can make a case otherwise, I'm willing to listen.

It's late game so I'm less weighted to taking risks against players who suck at playing town. I'll go more who I thought was scummy, which is squishy the most atm.

I trust heph. Could be swayed to Rob or Vison over squishy if there's a good case.

I really got a strong feel of town from logan at the end, his swan song of wisdom, plus I trust his judgement so I'd like us to look at that (and why I refused to vote for him at the end)

I agree that today has to count our we lose.

Everything I've read and feel tells me a spectrum, but I'm VERY willing fyi hear other arguments I hadn't considered. As for squishy, if you want to defend yourself with me, you might enlist
If you another to do it. The shit you say is dumb, divisive, and often illogical. Plus, I'm 98% sure you are a sock.

If you truly town, get a defense that makes sense, put your ego aside and stop worrying if we think you and Sinny and (you) QT are good players (you are not, at least, not here)



Spectrum

(Trust most)
Heph
Violet
Robcore
Squishy
(Trust least)

lethe
11-02-2017, 07:09 PM
It IS lynch or lose


Squishy

Hephaestus
11-02-2017, 11:56 PM
Since we're all pretty sure even a success today will still leave us picking someone tomorrow, let's make this interesting.

Robcore


Tally:

Squishy (1)
-------
lethe

Robcore (1)
-------
KOI/Heph

Vison
11-03-2017, 04:24 AM
As I see things:

I think squishy is town, I've been swayed.

lethe I'm still undecided but leaning town. I think the meta game matters but she is blinded by it. There has been namecalling, an intolerance towards newcomers, alot of sympathy for the first timers and possibly an undeserved trust in heph. I haven't seen that username in years!

hephaestus! That big reveal threw things in the game a bit. Now, I'm thrilled your back (never gone! Still missed you) but this is still a mafia game. I still want to lean town but showing up like this AND being mafia would be a brilliant move, although I doubt your reasons have much to do with the game. More like icing.

Rob... I tried to extend you as much as sympathy as possible, being a noob myself but I keep thinking your dirty. Do you have a good reason why I shouldn't vote for you?

Robcore
11-03-2017, 04:41 AM
If there are 3 Mafia, then we have to literally get back to back successes...so go ahead and make things interesting, if you like...but give us something to work with.
If you think I'm mafia, who would I be working with?
Squishy? Vison? lethe? Yourself?
I'm not ready to make my vote, yet...but when I do, I'll have chosen who to vote for on day 6, too.

Possible pairs:

Heph-lethe
Heph-Squishy
Heph-Vison
Heph-Robcore

lethe-Squishy
lethe-Vison
lethe-Robcore

Vison-Squishy
Vison-Robcore

Squishy-Robcore

By all means, take a look at me in the context of how I might be working with anyone, but do the same for everyone else, too. If we're correct in agreeing that there are 3 mafia, then one of those pairs is the entire remaining mafia team...and we need to be sussing out which pair is most likely.
Looking at each person's voting in comparison to each other person's voting will take some time...not sure what other parameters to compare besides voting...but I'll try to get my vote up by tomorrow afternoon (installing some cabinets and baseboard/casings for my aunt...will be free once that's done). Tonight is reserved for analysis and...Stranger Things 2.

Squishy
11-03-2017, 08:00 AM
I just want to say that if there are 2 mafia left, then if one Town votes another Town, the 2 mafia will jump on that and vote and the game will be over. So if you are Town, please be careful about voting.

I also agree with Vison's summary of Lethe and I think KOI/Heph and Lethe are the mafia team. I'll have to make a case later (just got home from work and going to sleep), but just the fact that they voted at the beginning here to try and bait any townies into putting up a vote against a townie is pretty suspect. Especially when my town reads, Rob and Vison, are on their list of targets...I think we got this. I don't think they played this right at all.

Oh yeah, and assuming there is 2 mafia let, then we've already seen Lethe and Heph vote, so we can conclude that their votes weren't a Town against a Town vote. I mean unless of course there is only 1 mafia left, which is of course still possible. Blorg could have thrown a curveball to make the game more interesting that way. Dunno. But based on normal mafia games and the number of players at start, there is usually 3 mafia in the game.

Squishy
11-03-2017, 08:18 AM
Oh, one thing to think about before I got to bed, so let's assume there are two mafia left

So Lethe and Heph "both" voted me at the same time and the round didn't end. This means that there wasn't a mafia player free to vote. So between me, Lethe, and KOI are "two mafia". And if it's two mafia left, all they have to do is lynch one townie to win the game, so a mafia throwing another mafia under the bus is a weird play. So that pretty much confirms Lethe and Heph are mafia.

Now let's assume there is one mafia left. Mafia needs to get two townies to vote against another Townie. They have to throw suspicion around, as well as votes to get Town people to vote against one another.

I think it's likely the 2 mafia scenario given that Lethe and Heph are fishing for votes, seem to be in agreement on who to target (but their reads are hazy and shallow), and the game didn't end when they both voted me. They were probably hoping either Vison or Rob would throw up a vote. But it didn't work.

Night.

Squishy
11-03-2017, 08:33 AM
OH WAIT

ROBCORE!! :lol:

Heph voted you, right? Assuming you are Town, then if Heph was Town, two mafia would jump on his vote and kill you and end the game. That didn't happen, so you know either there is one mafia left or Heph is mafia.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 02:04 PM
Wrong. On everything down to how voting ends. There are several conditions required for voting to end listed in the rules.

A simple majority at day's end.

A simple majority and everyone has voted. Just having three votes won't do it so long as there is someone who hasn't voted. That's how the word 'and' works.

The rest is just garbage. If things worked like you described, the proper maf play would be to leap when any townie was targeted at all. Easy and instant win.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 02:37 PM
I just want to say that if there are 2 mafia left, then if one Town votes another Town, the 2 mafia will jump on that and vote and the game will be over. So if you are Town, please be careful about voting.

I also agree with Vison's summary of Lethe and I think KOI/Heph and Lethe are the mafia team. I'll have to make a case later (just got home from work and going to sleep), but just the fact that they voted at the beginning here to try and bait any townies into putting up a vote against a townie is pretty suspect. Especially when my town reads, Rob and Vison, are on their list of targets...I think we got this. I don't think they played this right at all.

Oh yeah, and assuming there is 2 mafia let, then we've already seen Lethe and Heph vote, so we can conclude that their votes weren't a Town against a Town vote. I mean unless of course there is only 1 mafia left, which is of course still possible. Blorg could have thrown a curveball to make the game more interesting that way. Dunno. But based on normal mafia games and the number of players at start, there is usually 3 mafia in the game.

Really, this is all incredibly silly. There are five people left in the game and you think voting for you Rob or Vison is proof of being mafia because you think Rob and Vison read town? As manipulation it's transparent and sloppy and as reasoning it's... not.

You are correct on one thing in your hand wavy diatribes. I was baiting with my vote: for reactions. From what reactions I got though, I'm hoping your speculation about only one maf remaining proves true.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 02:52 PM
lethe: what, if anything, makes Squishy look town?

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:04 PM
oh, just read all of Blorg's post from end of day 3 to say you are wrong. So 1 person can get three votes, but day doesn't end, unless the other two vote or don't vote. That's kind of dumb. It should end regardless because a majority is reached, but whatever.

meh, alright I'm done then, back to my intuition read, let the game play out as it does. If I get lynched, whatever.

vote Lethe

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:04 PM
but day doesn't end, unless the other two vote or "say they won't vote" I mean.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 05:19 PM
oh, just read all of Blorg's post from end of day 3 to say you are wrong. So 1 person can get three votes, but day doesn't end, unless the other two vote or don't vote. That's kind of dumb. It should end regardless because a majority is reached, but whatever.


No. That's hardcore anti-town. You make it really really hard to believe you're town.

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:29 PM
uh-huh. because he says "simple majority" and it confused me because he really means "everyone has to vote or say they aren't voting". :banghead:

you aren't doing a good job of making me look mafia.

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:30 PM
Hey, Heph why don't you actually read me as a player, instead of harping on rules that are confusing and unlike anything I'm used too. That would actually make it look like you're scumhunting.

lethe
11-03-2017, 05:31 PM
You do make it hard.
Why say the game is stupid because your argument to point the finger no longer applies?

Also... This...

Especially when my town reads, Rob and Vison, are on their list of targets..

Why are you lumping Rob in with Vison on that? It's a pretty short thread and both Heph and I had Vison on the town side of reads.

It's you and Rob we saw as scummy.


As far as him being town? If he's the puppet, I guess it would be kind of unusual for one to be mafia while the others were town? Maybe? And maybe that vote for Faust, but that wasn't in a vacuum.

I'm concerned he's the only one not reading Rob as suspicious, too

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 05:31 PM
uh-huh. because he says "simple majority" and it confused me because he really means "everyone has to vote or say they aren't voting". :banghead:

you aren't doing a good job of making me look mafia.

I'm not trying to. But you keep making yourself look mafia to me.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 05:33 PM
lethe: I'm serious on that question. Take it from the other side. Do you see evidence that Squishy is town?

lethe
11-03-2017, 05:35 PM
Those two things I mentioned, the Faust vote and the rest of the triangle being town. You?

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 05:38 PM
Those two things I mentioned, the Faust vote and the rest of the triangle being town. You?

Yeah--why stop wagoning me when they were so close to success?

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:44 PM
...
I trust heph. Could be swayed to Rob or Vison over squishy if there's a good case.

I really got a strong feel of town from logan at the end, his swan song of wisdom, plus I trust his judgement so I'd like us to look at that (and why I refused to vote for him at the end)
...


+


Present thoughts:

lethe: I believe she could get away with being heavily engaged and mafia. Lean town.
Robcore: No strong opinion. Lean slightly scum for safety.
Squishy: Scummy.
Vison: slightly town, but with such low involvement, I'm not working with much.

Lynch or Lose.

Squishy

Heph:
lean slightly scum for safety? That's not even a read. slightly Town on Vison, but you don't say why and throw shade by suggesting "low involvement".
lethe:
Oh, really. Could be swayed to Vison or Rob? Convenient that you and Help seem to read my town reads as scummy or "slightly" town and don't even explain why.

And of course I'm scummy to you both, along with Rob and maybe Vison, despite all those players being incredibly transparent in their reading of the game. But Lethe and Heph that throw reads out without explaining don't find each other scummy. convenient. :rolleyes:

MAFIA TEAM!

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:45 PM
"help" = "Heph"

Squishy
11-03-2017, 05:51 PM
Also, using Logan as a tool to suggest you are Town lethe is silly. Almost everyone voted for him and he looked suspicious on the fact that he admitted he wasn't trying. And the fact that you threw shade on Logan round 3 when the votes were on Faust and KOI and Faust was lynched as mafia, suggests you were trying to save your mafia buddy more than anything, especially when you then didn't vote Logan last round. You look so suspicious in so many ways and there was no less reason to trust him at that point. But it does let you throw suspicion on me.

I trust in Vison and Rob to end this mess.

lethe
11-03-2017, 05:55 PM
Yeah--why stop wagoning me when they were so close to success?

Was he close to success? I didn't think piling on you made much sense, especially with the logan option. I pointed that out and with lack if a case he kind of had to move. But even in that case, he could have gone for me or Logan instead of Faust.
At the time I assumed he was trying to look town by sacrificing Faust as those two seemed linked in my mind by the change.
Now I don't know.

lethe
11-03-2017, 05:57 PM
I already explained the logan vote. Hell I explained it AS I WAS DOING IT.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 06:04 PM
Heph:
lean slightly scum for safety? That's not even a read. slightly Town on Vison, but you don't say why and throw shade by suggesting "low involvement".
lethe:
Oh, really. Could be swayed to Vison or Rob? Convenient that you and Help seem to read my town reads as scummy or "slightly" town and don't even explain why.

And of course I'm scummy to you both, along with Rob and maybe Vison, despite all those players being incredibly transparent in their reading of the game. But Lethe and Heph that throw reads out without explaining don't find each other scummy. convenient. :rolleyes:

MAFIA TEAM!

You're either trying to be deceptive, or you aren't paying attention to anything anyone, including yourself, says.

Leaning scum for safety means that by default I assume someone is scum. It's safer to assume scum than town. Obvious.

On Vison, first you object to a lack of reasons, then you dismiss reasons as "throwing shade". A term you use freely for anyone saying anyone is scummy. Your commentary is useless except to throw shade on yourself, which you do effortlessly with every word.

Lack of involvement is a valid reason for having difficulty giving a strong reason one way or the other: the lack of involvement produces little to go on. Also obvious.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 06:05 PM
Was he close to success? I didn't think piling on you made much sense, especially with the logan option. I pointed that out and with lack if a case he kind of had to move. But even in that case, he could have gone for me or Logan instead of Faust.
At the time I assumed he was trying to look town by sacrificing Faust as those two seemed linked in my mind by the change.
Now I don't know.

At the time of the shift, there were four people on me.

But damn if Squishy isn't working hard to get me to dismiss that fact.

lethe
11-03-2017, 06:22 PM
I think the protection of Rob is odd.

Going after Rob is the most viable option for defensive voting, and nearly all of us have voiced suspicion of Rob and willingness to vote Rob. It's the closest we have to consensus.

I haven't seen any good arguments or reasons to trust Rob, or anything to explain why squishy around trust him so much. And a lot of lumping Rob and Vison together as well.

If I were in squishy position as town, I'd have to have a ton of faith in his innocence not to be seriously looking at throwing a vote to him.

lethe
11-03-2017, 06:25 PM
Squishy

If you had to choose between Vison and Rob, who do you trust more and why?

Same question but now between me and Heph?

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 06:35 PM
I think the protection of Rob is odd.

Going after Rob is the most viable option for defensive voting, and nearly all of us have voiced suspicion of Rob and willingness to vote Rob. It's the closest we have to consensus.

I haven't seen any good arguments or reasons to trust Rob, or anything to explain why squishy around trust him so much. And a lot of lumping Rob and Vison together as well.

If I were in squishy position as town, I'd have to have a ton of faith in his innocence not to be seriously looking at throwing a vote to him.

Yep. My thought in voting for him was that if we had both of the alleged remaining mafia up for vote, things might crack because they would be pressured to vote for each other.


Tally:

Squishy (1)
------
lethe

Robcore (1)
------
KOI/Heph

lethe (1)
------
Squishy


left to vote:

Vison, Robcore

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 07:09 PM
Yep. My thought in voting for him was that if we had both of the alleged remaining mafia up for vote, things might crack because they would be pressured to vote for each other.


Hmm... in retrospect, this is a bit more ambiguous than intended: Robcore and Squishy are my highest scum reads. Squishy's behavior and rationale, from panicked behavior to odd reasons, to this "throwing shade" business, to clearly not paying attention, to making arguments that are what they want people to see rather than what actually has been said: scummy. The only holdback was choosing to back off lynching me when things were already in their favor.

Robcore is my second highest scum read because his claimed thought processes are... off. But that's measured against his being new, and well, He's Robcore. We see things very differently most of the time.

Vison leans town primarily because of her participation in the psychology game. It's not a strong town read, but I think there was disengagement from her at that point. I don't put a lot of weight on it, but it is most of what I have on her.

I trust lethe because she makes sense to me, so I have a hard time building a case against her on anything but the knowledge she is smart and my belief she has strong enough social skills to pull it off.

Hephaestus
11-03-2017, 07:12 PM
Got interrupted. Family.

Anyway, my thinking was that if Squishy and Robcore were the remaining maf, they would have a very difficult time dealing with both of them being on the horns. But if one of them was town, not so much. The vote alone wouldn't be much--there's too many WIFOM angles, but thought the how of getting there might be revealing.

lethe
11-03-2017, 08:05 PM
I wish he hadn't left after I asked those questions.
It's frustrating because it feels like we tell him how to work with us and look less scummy and defend himself, but then he goes the other direction.

I thought the questions were relevant and I have a hard time seeing why a townie would avoid answering. Some of the arguements seem purposefully divisive to town and contrived.

I'm currently packing, getting ready to leave the house and have a long flight. Now is a good time to discuss if anyone has new ideas or defenses I hadn't considered.

Why so trusting of squishy, Vison? Can you defend him?
Rob, can you expand on your positions?

Robcore
11-03-2017, 09:52 PM
Hey guys, I'm done work, but will be a while on sharing my thoughts...wife is off to a hair appointment in a minute, and the kids are in need of attention.
I haven't made much leeway in my analysis...the voting record doesn't seem to help much. I'm leaning scum on everyone, again.
I'm thinking this...first, I'm assuming there are 2 mafia left. Totally different game now than at the start...50% chance that anyone is mafia.
Next, of Squishy, Heph, and lethe, the 3 remaining players with the most contributions to go on, it doesn't seem like any of you is working together...so while Vison doesn't stand out one way or the other, she seems like a good candidate for a vote because I can't seem to figure out how any combo of Squishy, Heph, and lethe could be the mafia pair...does it make sense that she'd be the second half? I dunno...not a confident assumption...but it's the one I'm entertaining at the moment.

Not confident reading Squishy's bumbling, either...scum or dumb? wouldn't want to see a QT scenario, again.

lethe
11-03-2017, 10:27 PM
Well, I think it's pretty obvious Heph and I are working together....?

I agree with your assumption that one of the mafia would be quieter and not obviously in cahoots,

But that's what makes me suspect a you + squishy scenario.

If I were a spectator and didn't know I was town, is find it highly unlikely that both Heph and I are the remaining mafia.

Do you guys think we are getting distracted trying to figure out both mafia at the same time?

Squishy
11-03-2017, 11:56 PM
@Rob

I can't believe you're suggesting Vison just because you don't think she aligns with any pairings.

And I'm not even saying she isn't mafia or couldn't be. She "could" be just from low activity. But based on how people have actually participated, their content, do you really think Vison is mafia? Honest question. Because this isn't the time to be making guesses on low activity players, if you are Town.

Robcore
11-04-2017, 12:43 AM
I agree, Squishy...I'm not saying she's likely mafia due to being inactive...she's likely because out of you, Heph and lethe, it seems unlikely that any of you are in cahoots. I'm sure at least one of you is mafia. As such, Vison would be my second guess...because I have a hard time understanding how two of you could be mafia...does that make sense to you?

Squishy
11-04-2017, 01:18 AM
Yeah. It does. I really do think you and Vison are Town.

I guess you'll have to decide on me then. Not sure anything I say or do would change much now, but if you have some questions, I could try.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 01:56 AM
Can't shake the gut feeling. Would hate to lose for not trusting it.

Vote Squishy

lethe
11-04-2017, 03:44 AM
Ok, landing, not much written.

I see squishy still ignored my questions while at the same time asking for questions? ?
Dumb or Scum indeed.




Tally:

Squishy (2)
------
lethe
Heph

Robcore (0)
------

lethe (1)
------
Squishy


left to vote:

Vison, Robcore

Vison
11-04-2017, 04:25 AM
Squishy

Can you answer those questions? Your evasiveness is making me doubt my earlier assessment.

Squishy
11-04-2017, 04:33 AM
That's fine. I'm ignoring lethe. She's my highest scum read and I'm tired of being mischaracterized by her. Not giving her the satisfaction.

vote how you will. Either way, the game is ending if there's two mafia left.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 04:35 AM
I agree, Squishy...I'm not saying she's likely mafia due to being inactive...she's likely because out of you, Heph and lethe, it seems unlikely that any of you are in cahoots. I'm sure at least one of you is mafia. As such, Vison would be my second guess...because I have a hard time understanding how two of you could be mafia...does that make sense to you?

I believe you.

Vison
11-04-2017, 04:39 AM
Despite my quibbling about squishy I've been pretty sure about rob for awhile now.

Vote Robcore

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 04:51 AM
Oh. Interesting.

Robcore
11-04-2017, 04:52 AM
I believe you.

So do you think, then, that Vison is the safer vote?

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:00 AM
So do you think, then, that Vison is the safer vote?

Honestly, I feel solid on both. But as a show of faith:

Vote vison

Robcore
11-04-2017, 05:00 AM
I'm actually concerned that mafia could stalemate us if the vote is split...because a tally of 2-2-1 means no lynch, if I understand the rules correctly? Not sure if folks will be online for the next 4 hours...if there's not enough consensus to get 3 votes for Vison, then I'll vote for Squishy, just to be sure that we achieve enough votes for a lynch.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:02 AM
I'm actually concerned that mafia could stalemate us if the vote is split...because a tally of 2-2-1 means no lynch, if I understand the rules correctly? Not sure if folks will be online for the next 4 hours...if there's not enough consensus to get 3 votes for Vison, then I'll vote for Squishy, just to be sure that we achieve enough votes for a lynch.

Deal.
lethe? Puzzle solved?

Robcore
11-04-2017, 05:04 AM
vote Vison

lethe
11-04-2017, 05:04 AM
Yes, it's lynch mafia this round or die. I think it's squishy and Rob. I'm more sure of squishy,

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:09 AM
Yes, it's lynch mafia this round or die. I think it's squishy and Rob. I'm more sure of squishy,

That makes for an interesting problem. That would mean that only one mafia went for the lightning rod of the claimed cop being up for lynch.

Unless it's just Squishy left.

lethe
11-04-2017, 05:12 AM
Dude I don't understand where this Vison stuff is coming from last minute, not that I think she's amazingly town or anything, but a switch like this? Last minute? You'd have to Maher a great case.

I'll also point out it looks like Rob is trying to inexplicably protect squishy, too

Robcore
11-04-2017, 05:15 AM
Are there formal guidelines for mods to choose how many mafia there are? If there's a chance of just one mafia left, I'll switch to Squishy, again, to avoid the stalemate. Vison is my second choice, anyway...just seemed like the safer bet in the 2 mafia scenario.

Robcore
11-04-2017, 05:17 AM
unvote Vison (do we still have to unvote?)
vote Squishy

happy now?

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:19 AM
Dude I don't understand where this Vison stuff is coming from last minute, not that I think she's amazingly town or anything, but a switch like this? Last minute? You'd have to Maher a great case.

I'll also point out it looks like Rob is trying to inexplicably protect squishy, too

Missed the backside of that one. Troublesome.
Robcore, consensus can't be reached with Squishy. I believe most strongly she is maf, so I can't take the chance that the two of you are mafia. Lethe has played very openly.

vote no lynch
lethe, out of the pool of people on QT, only three remain: you, me and Vison. We've only gotten one mafia. That implies to me, if there were three total mafia, at least two of them would be on the lynch of the claimed cop. One might play off, but your asking me to believe two of them might have voted off.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:19 AM
Oh. Ok.

Vote Squishy

Robcore
11-04-2017, 05:20 AM
we just need consensus...can't be doing this 2 vote baloney, because if there are 2 mafia, they can engineer a no-lynch at the last minute...

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:20 AM
That's day end.

lethe
11-04-2017, 05:26 AM
So, that's it, then? All have voted and squishy hit majority?

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 05:28 AM
Yah.

Squishy
11-04-2017, 05:38 AM
great job town. :rolleyes:

Oh well, I tried.

gg mafia.

Squishy
11-04-2017, 05:40 AM
So who's actually scum then?

Blorg
11-04-2017, 09:55 AM
I'm going to spare us another night because I doubt that the mafia is going to kill one of their own just for fun :)

Squishy, Heph, and Vison are vanilla townies.
lethe and Robcore are mafia.

Player List:
Hephaestus, vanilla townie
Light Leak, vanilla townie
lethe, mafia
Faust, mafia
Fitz, town doctor
Polemarch, vanilla townie
Quicktwist, town cop
Robcore, mafia
Squishy, vanilla townie
Sinny, vanilla townie
LowIQLogan, vanilla townie
Vison, vanilla townie

Good game everyone :cheers:

Blorg
11-04-2017, 10:02 AM
POP QUIZ

Whoever is the first person to answer these questions correctly is the real winner of mafia!!

What is the name of the video game inspired by mafia?
What effects did parents say mafia had on their children at the Rockingham school?
Where did the game originate?
In what year did the Kaliningrad Higher School try to teach nonverbal communication skills via mafia?
What is the name of the sci fi movie based on mafia?
Why did Andrew Plotkin create the werewolf variant?

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 10:11 AM
Faust spewed Vison as Town.

No idea why Squishy was lynched, they played pretty pro-town IMO.

robcore played well, but if he is lying about rl stuff that is no bueno.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 11:07 AM
Lol, I only strongly suspected Robcore after my lynch.

They gave a good show.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 11:15 AM
Good job Robcore. It honestly hinged on your rhetoric and my willingness to believe you didn't have the ability to lie as elegantly and classically as you did.

That and every time I found reason to think Squishy town, they piled on more reasons not to, or outright denied what I thought a valid townie reason in favor of something that smelled of bullshit to me.

I'm satisfied with losing in this way.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 11:46 AM
I sometimes felt like there.. were.. too.. many...dots..in...Rob's...rambling..essays..but..h ad..never really paid attention to how Rob writes before.. on the one hand, he could have just been rambling off real thoughts in a manner he thought ..town friendly, on the other hand, he could have totally been scum, rambling.. and dotting.. like a lazy boss.. Wasn't till him and Lethe immediately came in acting all scummy once me and LightLeak were of the scene, I sort of knew.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 11:50 AM
FYI, Lethe would have been my next top mafia sudo with a view to lynching, I was hoping Squisy would lead the way in that department.. alas.. town team work just sort of collapsed in this last round.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 11:51 AM
*suspect

Sinny
11-04-2017, 11:54 AM
Logan played the most unsatisfactory Town game, I think.

I found Koi's methods questionable, but I suppose Koi will do, what Koi will do.

And I think all the Mafia played a good game.

Notable Towny kudos to QT, Squishy, Lightleak, and Vision.

Blorg
11-04-2017, 12:09 PM
yeah, Light Leak is a pro. And I think there is a Light Leak Curse in addition to the Polemarch Curse, since you keep ending up as town! Sorry about that. But you're good at it! I think townies will be completely screwed if you ever end up being mafia :ph34r:

Blorg
11-04-2017, 12:21 PM
As for those of you who bickered about me, I have to say that I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

ALSO: REMINDER: The real winner is the one who wins the quiz I posted on the previous page.

Blorg
11-04-2017, 12:24 PM
As for those of you who bickered about me, I have to say that I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

not you, Hephaestus. (just thought I'd add that since you recently posted in the rules thread, but you defended my rules so I know that you sparkle.)

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 12:39 PM
POP QUIZ

Whoever is the first person to answer these questions correctly is the real winner of mafia!!

What is the name of the video game inspired by mafia?

Werewolves Within--though I suspect Lost Dimension (PS3) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Dimension) also fits the bill.


What effects did parents say mafia had on their children at the Rockingham school?

Trouble sleeping.


Where did the game originate?

USSR


In what year did the Kaliningrad Higher School try to teach nonverbal communication skills via mafia?

1998


What is the name of the sci fi movie based on mafia?

Mafiya: Igra na vyzhivanie


Why did Andrew Plotkin create the werewolf variant?

Cultural relevance, and werewolves hunt at night and look like people in the day.[/QUOTE]

Light Leak
11-04-2017, 12:51 PM
I had a hunch about Robcore, but then I kept thinking maybe he seemed off because he was new to playing. Lethe fooled me, but late in the game (after I was killed) I started to think it was either lethe or Heph, but I wasn't sure who.


yeah, Light Leak is a pro. And I think there is a Light Leak Curse in addition to the Polemarch Curse, since you keep ending up as town! Sorry about that. But you're good at it! I think townies will be completely screwed if you ever end up being mafia :ph34r:

Maybe one of these days we'll get a chance to find out. :devil: If not, I'll take my curse over Polemarch's. Thanks for hosting, Blorg.

Squishy
11-04-2017, 01:30 PM
No idea why Squishy was lynched, they played pretty pro-town IMO.


I'm not sure either. I kept hoping Town would see the gross mischaracterizations from lethe (not just on me). Or the strange way she used not voting Logan to make her look town, after pushing logan be voted over faust. I think I mentioned that.

For some reason being new to this type of game style or not getting details right made me look scummy? Pretty much WIFOM from what I've seen.

This round felt like an execution.

I guess 2/2 on intuition reads isn't bad.

I wish you would have been around an extra round. Might have had gotten lethe early with a hopeful doc save.



robcore played well, but if he is lying about rl stuff that is no bueno.

Yeah. I let him off the hook when he mentioned that; it explained his seemingly undevoted playstyle. Stuff like that makes it hard to read people and sort of rigs the game a little. And I'm looking at you Logan. :rofl:

lethe
11-04-2017, 02:31 PM
Eh... If you three are really confused why you seemed scummy and hit such resistance, and still think you played well, I'd recommend you try to figure it out before playing here again.

It made the mafia job easier, which I guess was nice for us, but also for an unpleasant game for others.

Robcore
11-04-2017, 03:24 PM
My RL stuff was all true.

What I found humorous is that I think it was pointed out(by Sinny?) that there had to be at least 1 mafia in the 3 that didn't vote Faust...me, lethe, and Logan....and then we killed Logan, and just moved on. Big miss for town. I even mentioned that there could be 2 in there...and that the likelihood of a mafia secretly voting for Faust was not high, with Sinny as the last to vote Faust. I guess it sometimes pays for mafia to get out ahead of the pack with damning evidence? or maybe it really was just an honest miss.

This has been a pretty fascinating experience...and a bit stressful...I did not expect to be mafia in my first game(thanks Blorg!)...but I think I'll be a much better town player for it. Lying is challenging enough...but being actively manipulative with lies is on a whole other level.

Big thanks to lethe, too...awesome play. I could blend in as town well enough...but she freakin' steered the town ship on a number of occasions...was awesome to watch from this side. Honourable mentions to Faust...

Also, Sinny, I use the dot dot dot writing all the time...here, and outside the game. I try to edit into proper sentences, but it's a tough habit to break.

All in all, it was good fun...and after getting Heph back, a win is just icing on the cake.

Blorg
11-04-2017, 03:43 PM
Congratulations Hephaestus, you are the real winner!

________________



No idea why Squishy was lynched, they played pretty pro-town IMO.


I wish you would have been around an extra round.


WIFOM

https://media1.tenor.com/images/0f1d8c17cc419912917c92372db8f9c8/tenor.gif?itemid=9608539

Blorg
11-04-2017, 03:51 PM
Robcore I meant to send a "you're welcome and you played well" rep, not just "YOU" lol (pressed enter prematurely)

Squishy
11-04-2017, 03:56 PM
Eh... If you three are really confused why you seemed scummy and hit such resistance, and still think you played well, I'd recommend you try to figure it out before playing here again.

It made the mafia job easier, which I guess was nice for us, but also for an unpleasant game for others.

The game is over.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 04:12 PM
What I have noticed from playing on this site, this sites meta is kinda counter intuitive in that once a person gets one vote, its likely to steamroll. That is def something different about this site than others I have played on.
lethe, what I said about people misunderstanding me was completely true. I have had this problem since my first game and I still haven't figured out how to fix it yet.

@Neville, I was looking for sympathy and wasn't trying to be manipulative. I hope you can see that now.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 04:13 PM
What I have noticed from playing on this site, this sites meta is kinda counter intuitive in that once a person gets one vote, its likely to steamroll. That is def something different about this site than others I have played on.
lethe, what I said about people misunderstanding me was completely true. I have had this problem since my first game and I still haven't figured out how to fix it yet.

@Neville, I wasn't looking for sympathy and wasn't trying to be manipulative. I hope you can see that now.

Wasn't

EBWOP (Edit by way of post)

lethe
11-04-2017, 04:27 PM
Sour grapes make the most robust whine.

Take feedback and learn, or not. (Shrug) All the same to me as long as you don't screw things for others.

Squishy
11-04-2017, 04:29 PM
Sore winner?

Squishy
11-04-2017, 04:30 PM
And you were quite the dick this game. So your opinion means null.

Utisz
11-04-2017, 05:11 PM
Still trying to figure out that the actual fuck happened at the start of this game with Neville and QuickTwist cop/doctor claiming round 1 and then Polemarch getting lynched out of nowhere and then Neville blocking Sinny and the mafia going for Sinny as well despite the doctor and cop outting themselves, haha. I. don't. even.

After Logan's last post about how the mafia tried to lynch Sinny over a probably cop or doc in round 1, I thought lethe and Heph were mafia. Maybe it was a noob move or maybe it was a gambit to avoid the blocks and use suspicion of QT to get the town to do the dirty work or maybe the mafia just really didn't want to play with Sinny.

Anyways, congrats to the mafia!! The scum streak continues.

Nice job Blorg. Sorry I couldn't play.

lethe
11-04-2017, 05:21 PM
And you were quite the dick this game. So your opinion means null.

Hmm. Well, maybe consider that you liking me personally or not is no reflection on the advice/ knowledge I can give.

Or keep insisting you did everything right, still lost, and remain confused why you were treated that way and blame everyone else. Let me know how that works out for you.

Fitz
11-04-2017, 05:42 PM
What I have noticed from playing on this site, this sites meta is kinda counter intuitive in that once a person gets one vote, its likely to steamroll. That is def something different about this site than others I have played on.
lethe, what I said about people misunderstanding me was completely true. I have had this problem since my first game and I still haven't figured out how to fix it yet.

@Neville, I was looking for sympathy and wasn't trying to be manipulative. I hope you can see that now.


ugh, you're still going on?



Still trying to figure out that the actual fuck happened at the start of this game with Neville and QuickTwist cop/doctor claiming round 1 and then Polemarch getting lynched out of nowhere and then Neville blocking Sinny and the mafia going for Sinny as well despite the doctor and cop outting themselves, haha. I. don't. even.


It was pretty funny though. Neville was always a lightning rod of suspicion so it was only natural that he would have to be mafia right? :jerk: I'm just glad there was something in my pocket to make it interesting.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 05:51 PM
Sour grapes make the most robust whine.

Take feedback and learn, or not. (Shrug) All the same to me as long as you don't screw things for others.

http://forums.intpcomplex.com/showthread.php?4885-Mafia-6-Day-2-in-which-Blorg-makes-a-mistake-for-which-she-is-very-sorry&p=233281&viewfull=1#post233281

This was my list D2, think yours would be better?

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 05:54 PM
Also this which I really should have pushed harder.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 05:54 PM
Also this (http://forums.intpcomplex.com/showthread.php?4885-Mafia-6-Day-2-in-which-Blorg-makes-a-mistake-for-which-she-is-very-sorry&p=233311&viewfull=1#post233311) which I really should have pushed harder.

EBWOP

Fitz
11-04-2017, 05:59 PM
http://forums.intpcomplex.com/showthread.php?4885-Mafia-6-Day-2-in-which-Blorg-makes-a-mistake-for-which-she-is-very-sorry&p=233281&viewfull=1#post233281

This was my list D2, think yours would be better?

If only you'd have investigated one of them instead of deliberately flubbing your shot.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 06:02 PM
If only you'd have investigated one of them instead of deliberately flubbing your shot.

LOL. You prolly get lynched if I don't investigate you there :whistle:

lethe
11-04-2017, 06:04 PM
A) unlikely, but even if he did and mafia killed you in the night, the town would have been left with a trustworthy read verified by your death.

So... Better than what happened.

Think about it

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 06:15 PM
A) unlikely, but even if he did and mafia killed you in the night, the town would have been left with a trustworthy read verified by your death.

So... Better than what happened.

Think about it

I love that you think you are so good at this game when you've played like under 5 games.

Fitz
11-04-2017, 06:15 PM
LOL. You prolly get lynched if I don't investigate you there :whistle:

I was already dead the moment I announced myself.

Fitz
11-04-2017, 06:16 PM
I love that you think you are so good at this game when you've played like under 5 games.

She beat all the "experts" in our midst. :rofl:

Faust
11-04-2017, 06:22 PM
It was fun being mafia for the first time.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 06:24 PM
She beat all the "experts" in our midst. :rofl:

I was lynched as basically confirmed town in part to you "expert" play, buddy. I would not have lynched me. Also, I had 2/3 Scum in my lynch pool on D2. Far far better than what your play provided.

lethe
11-04-2017, 06:27 PM
I love that you think you are so good at this game when you've played like under 5 games.

I love that you think you are great.

Am I wrong?

Tell me what would have happened (in any scenario) had you NOT investigated Neville. Tell me which of those situations is worse than you investigating Neville.

You did it to save him from being lynched town? Yeah? How did that help town?

lethe
11-04-2017, 06:30 PM
Neville was clever enough to actually prevent a townie death. You wasted that opportunity and left the town with nothing and alienated all your possible allies.

I don't see how you can keep insisting you did everything right and it's everyone else sucking that made you lose, when we are sitting here trying to explain and help you get better.

lethe
11-04-2017, 06:46 PM
It was fun being mafia for the first time.

It was really cool playing with you. I knew a split and maybe a sacrifice would had to happen day three to pay for killing both roles, and honestly kind of assumed it would be Robcore making himself target.

By you were smooth and took the heat in a way that was satisfying to town. Plus, long term it really was better having Robcore playing like a red herring, I think he was more confusing to have than you, who would have seemed more a threat.

I really hope none if that sounds insulting you either if you.

Vison
11-04-2017, 08:03 PM
I got the impression very early in the game that QuickTwist and Sinny (later squishy) were playing a very different game than anyone else. It wasn't a fun game and each time I learned or thought that one of them was town I was dismayed because their playstyles left a lot to be desired. I just didn't want to be associated with them because of the inconsistency, low blow aggression, and continual appeals to their own preceived authority. You can tie your shoes everyday and still be bad at it.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 08:04 PM
I love that you think you are great.

Am I wrong?

Tell me what would have happened (in any scenario) had you NOT investigated Neville. Tell me which of those situations is worse than you investigating Neville.

You did it to save him from being lynched town? Yeah? How did that help town?

Jokes on you because I don't think I am great. I think I am pretty average, actually. I guess I just know a more accepted way to play if you were to go play somewhere where Mafia is played regularly.

If I would have investigated you like I was originally thinking, then as soon as I am lynched, you go next. If I investigate someone else who is Town, then Neville likely gets lynched because he pushed for my lynch so hard.

I get that everyone thinks I made a terrible play, but given that fake claiming happens all the time, I don't think it was a bad play. I still have to ask the question, in what world does Neville claim, I save his ass from getting lynched, he doesn't die N1, and I don't push his lynch D2, when do I do that as Scum? Like, never do I do that.

I mean, in hindsight, it was a bad play to investigate him because his slot "should" sort itself out. But in this game where people don't play by that kind of logic I don't think it was a bad play.

I am curious why you didn't shot Neville N1 tho. Could you explain that one because I really don't get it.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 08:06 PM
I got the impression very early in the game that QuickTwist and Sinny (later squishy) were playing a very different game than anyone else. It wasn't a fun game and each time I learned or thought that one of them was town I was dismayed because their playstyles left a lot to be desired. I just didn't want to be associated with them because of the inconsistency, low blow aggression, and continual appeals to their own preceived authority. You can tie your shoes everyday and still be bad at it.

No offence but you didn't really bring much to the table. I think your longest post was prolly about 500 characters.

Vison
11-04-2017, 08:09 PM
No offence but you didn't really bring much to the table. I think your longest post was prolly about 500 characters.

And you did an excellent job being encouraging of new players. Do you consider being an asshole a prerequisite of the game or is that just you?

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 08:09 PM
I am definitely not going to be as active next game because I think that was part of the reason people wanted me dead.

Faust
11-04-2017, 08:17 PM
It was really cool playing with you. I knew a split and maybe a sacrifice would had to happen day three to pay for killing both roles, and honestly kind of assumed it would be Robcore making himself target.

By you were smooth and took the heat in a way that was satisfying to town. Plus, long term it really was better having Robcore playing like a red herring, I think he was more confusing to have than you, who would have seemed more a threat.

I really hope none if that sounds insulting you either if you.

Thanks, playing with you and Rob is part of what made it fun.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 08:17 PM
And you did an excellent job being encouraging of new players. Do you consider being an asshole a prerequisite of the game or is that just you?

I play with new players all the time. IDK what you expect, I guess. I am not someone who is going to coddle new players because I'm not really the type of person who really coddles anyone.

You can call me an asshole if you want, that's your prerogative. I actually tried and failed to tone it down. I failed at that because I felt I should not have been Scum read. I felt I was pretty much lock clear short of mod confirmation. I was very frustrated with this game and as such, it didn't help me garner a whole lot of sympathy for people.

I would like to know what exactly you were expecting as a new player. I provided some useful info at the beginning of the game. For doing that I was Scum read which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but a lot of things didn't make sense to me in this game.

Faust
11-04-2017, 08:18 PM
I am definitely not going to be as active next game because I think that was part of the reason people wanted me dead.

I'll believe it when I see it.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 08:21 PM
Also, this game had a "Follow the Cop" error in the setup. If I would have claimed cop in my first post and the doc didn't claim, I could have just kept investigating people without being targeted for NK.

Its an error in setup theory, but it didn't really affect the outcome of the game. But it could have and that's why these kinds of setups usually don't get run.

Vison
11-04-2017, 08:28 PM
I would like to know what exactly you were expecting as a new player. I provided some useful info at the beginning of the game. For doing that I was Scum read which doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but a lot of things didn't make sense to me in this game.

Basic sportsmanship

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:29 PM
Lol, the majority of my reads were in fact correct, and QT was the first person to cast suspicion on Lethe for playing too rigidly..

You are right in the me and QT play a different game.
We rely on logic, and logic always trumps :lol:

Vison
11-04-2017, 08:30 PM
Lol, the majority of my reads were in fact correct, and QT was the first person to cast suspicion on Lethe for playing too rigidly..

You are right in the me and QT play a different game.
We rely on logic, and logic always trumps :lol:

The way you went about it made it look like you were having an emotional reaction dislike rather than any kind of logic. Execution matters.

Fitz
11-04-2017, 08:36 PM
Also, this game had a "Follow the Cop" error in the setup. If I would have claimed cop in my first post and the doc didn't claim, I could have just kept investigating people without being targeted for NK.

Its an error in setup theory, but it didn't really affect the outcome of the game. But it could have and that's why these kinds of setups usually don't get run.

I couldn't use my power to protect the same person on consecutive nights.


The problem was you and sinny being the most annoying people in the game.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:37 PM
Says the absentee, who was pretty much useless.

My game was on form, just because idiots couldn't pull ya weight.

lethe
11-04-2017, 08:38 PM
If I would have investigated you like I was originally thinking, then as soon as I am lynched, you go next. If I investigate someone else who is Town, then Neville likely gets lynched because he pushed for my lynch so hard.


Yes, I'd be lynched next round which HELPS THE TOWN.
Investigating anyone else would leave a confirmed townie after your death, which helps the town.

Again... There is LITERALLY NO POSSIBLE outcome from investigating NOT Neville that would be worse than the outcomes of investigating Neville.


If I investigate someone else who is Town, then Neville likely gets lynched because he pushed for my lynch so hard.


The end result of that scenario? You both death like was going to happen anyway, but the next morning the town is left with a reliable cop read. Which helps the town.

It was a bad town play, but a good mafia play. And you insulted and rejected any who pointed this out (though they ALL saw) and insisted you only make the best moves.
So... You were either dumb or scum which is why it was so easy to target you.

Didn't shoot Neville for the same reasons he said. Both you were at odds and the town was getting divided and easy to poke already. Plus it's hard to believe both roles came out at the end. Thought worth risk it to get the power roles and shake things up, and really, thought it was a guaranteed kill, letting Neville talk more weakens you long term, too.

lethe
11-04-2017, 08:41 PM
I'm honestly telling you Sinny, it's because of you three that we were able to win the game.


So, thank you.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:41 PM
Anyway, the proof of my competence rests in my reads.
The proof of most others peoples incompetence rests in theirs.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:43 PM
I'm honestly telling you Sinny, it's because of you three that we were able to win the game.


So, thank you.

I know that's not true.

Your slimey personality was perfect for your mafia role, congratulations.. even though I saw right through it.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:48 PM
I'd guess from your performance here that you are adept at being a manipulative bitch :lol:

lethe
11-04-2017, 08:49 PM
So...

It's not that you made mistakes or played poorly and rudely, even though we are all telling you you did...

It's because I'm mean and everyone else sucks. You have nothing to learn and take no blame.

Keep that narrative if you like, but I hope in the future you play elsewhere because you sucked a lot of the fun out and I wish the new players had a better game. I'm happy to say that because most here avoid conflict.

lethe
11-04-2017, 08:50 PM
Listen, Sinny, if you resort to name calling again I will report your posts.

Sinny
11-04-2017, 08:55 PM
Was just complimenting your performance...

Don't worry, won't waste another proverbial breathe on you. I know what you are, don't need to prove it :lol:

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 09:54 PM
The problem was you and sinny being the most annoying people in the game.

Annoying =/= Scum

Sinny
11-04-2017, 10:00 PM
Annoying =/= Scum

There's no hope for these tards :lol:

Fitz
11-04-2017, 10:05 PM
Annoying =/= Scum

Everyone has already explained it to you. You're not capable of getting it and it's time for you to move on.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 10:06 PM
Yes, I'd be lynched next round which HELPS THE TOWN.
Investigating anyone else would leave a confirmed townie after your death, which helps the town.

Again... There is LITERALLY NO POSSIBLE outcome from investigating NOT Neville that would be worse than the outcomes of investigating Neville.

And if Neville is fake claiming, what then? Claiming Doc is the easiest claim to make and is prolly one of the most fake claimed roles there is. Reason for that it's super easy to give fake results. I didn't want Neville to be able to get through the whole game without lifting a finger just because he claimed Doc.


The end result of that scenario? You both death like was going to happen anyway, but the next morning the town is left with a reliable cop read. Which helps the town.

It was a bad town play, but a good mafia play. And you insulted and rejected any who pointed this out (though they ALL saw) and insisted you only make the best moves.
So... You were either dumb or scum which is why it was so easy to target you.

Didn't shoot Neville for the same reasons he said. Both you were at odds and the town was getting divided and easy to poke already. Plus it's hard to believe both roles came out at the end. Thought worth risk it to get the power roles and shake things up, and really, thought it was a guaranteed kill, letting Neville talk more weakens you long term, too.

Well, is it better for confTown to be NK or go to end game, that's the question.

But seriously, how do I know Neville's claim is legit there? I don't that's why I investigated him.

Regardless, YOU made the wrong play by letting Neville live. Neville just played like an idiot and didn't really give any reasons for anything. That's poor play by Neville any way you slice it.

QuickTwist
11-04-2017, 10:10 PM
Everyone has already explained it to you. You're not capable of getting it and it's time for you to move on.

Play better next time, Jesus Christ.

Hephaestus
11-04-2017, 10:29 PM
It was the manner of that triangle's play that lead me into alliance with the lethe, and ultimately Rob.

Faust
11-04-2017, 10:48 PM
Listen, Sinny, if you resort to name calling again I will report your posts.

I've actually kept Sinny on my ignore list for the duration of the game and only occasionally hit View Post.

lethe
11-05-2017, 12:25 AM
And if Neville is fake claiming, what then? Claiming Doc is the easiest claim to make and is prolly one of the most fake claimed roles there is. Reason for that it's super easy to give fake results. I didn't want Neville to be able to get through the whole game without lifting a finger just because he claimed Doc.



Well, is it better for confTown to be NK or go to end game, that's the question.

But seriously, how do I know Neville's claim is legit there? I don't that's why I investigated him.

Regardless, YOU made the wrong play by letting Neville live. Neville just played like an idiot and didn't really give any reasons for anything. That's poor play by Neville any way you slice it.

Um... No I didn't because we killed you both immediately.

So what if he's faking? That changes LITERALLY NOTHING about the outcomes. Maybe if you were role cop, but even then the results around be the same.

Seriously, dude.. Number of outcomes are limited enough you can map every single possibility in a single post and weigh the options.

We all see it. You don't. I challenge you to paint a scenario where investigating NOT Neville is WORSE than investigating anyone else. You can't.

It's called logic. This was a relatively simple one.

lethe
11-05-2017, 12:29 AM
Neville made more sense than you, had a better effect than you, was a greater that to mafia than you, was almost as abrasive but didn't alienate town as much as you...


He was better.

Robcore
11-05-2017, 12:40 AM
Doesn't do anyone any good to make reads that you can't persuade others to accept.
lethe's arguments were very logical, too...but she was able to persuade with those. She knew who the mafia were, too, lol.

I had hoped that the town nastiness was a tactic of some sort, to elicit reactions and make reads...but in the end, it was just folks being lame. Disappointing.

As mafia, I did actually want to make reads as though I was town...but the bickering was just too much to filter out...and that ultimately played in our favour.
I mean, yeah, Sinny could make accurate reads, because she didn't have to filter herself out...but for the rest of her team, she was just burying and distracting from the evidence others needed in order to play effectively. It's not like logic is outside the wheelhouse of other INTPs...the problem was arbitrarily making it more work than it needed to be for her teammates.

QuickTwist
11-05-2017, 01:41 AM
Um... No I didn't because we killed you both immediately.

So what if he's faking? That changes LITERALLY NOTHING about the outcomes. Maybe if you were role cop, but even then the results around be the same.

Seriously, dude.. Number of outcomes are limited enough you can map every single possibility in a single post and weigh the options.

We all see it. You don't. I challenge you to paint a scenario where investigating NOT Neville is WORSE than investigating anyone else. You can't.

It's called logic. This was a relatively simple one.

I already did give a scenario where it's better to investigate Neville over other people. IF Neville is fake claiming, he walks away without a scratch all the way to end game. I don't trust this site enough to be able to see through a fake claim. I don't think much would get done about it, honestly.

Look, judging by the way claims are handled around here (and by that I mean an unCCed Cop getting lynched), I have little faith that this site really knows what to do in the case of a fake claim.

I made a read based on what I know of Neville. I know he's cocky and arrogant, that's the perfect combination for someone to do a fake claim. Also, I was thinking about how I asked him earlier in the game, if he had a claim, he should make it. He completely ignores that and then comes back like hours later when its soon to be EOD with a really easy claim to make. The ONLY reason people took his claim seriously is because he made a lucky save on N1.. Barring that, if I hadn't investigated him, he prolly gets lynched for pushing my lynch.

QuickTwist
11-05-2017, 01:43 AM
Neville made more sense than you, had a better effect than you, was a greater that to mafia than you, was almost as abrasive but didn't alienate town as much as you...


He was better.

Nevilles only saving grace is that he saved Sinny from NK. That's it, that is all he did well.

lethe
11-05-2017, 02:09 AM
I already did give a scenario where it's better to investigate Neville over other people

Which one? If he was faking? Because I ferment you saying it was mostly to hope to save him. But let's look if he was faking....

IF Neville is fake claiming, he walks away without a scratch all the way to end game.

Maybe, maybe not. I can't get a straight story from you and Sinny... Did you think he'd die without your confirmation? Or survive without your condemnation.

Let's say you got a read on somebody else and he was lying. And your worst case scenario happens and he survives. Well, still you'd leave the town with a reliable read that they didn't have before. Which is still more useful than what you left.

And yeah, Sinny you think the town would suspect the doctor who keeps living and not saving anyone? Even not, you'd leave them with more than they had doing it the way you did.


Barring that, if I hadn't investigated him, he prolly gets lynched for pushing my lynch.

Either him or you, but even if you saved him a single day, which you claimed you did, he was going to.die in the night anyway. Saving him from a town lynch it's useless. Even if he was lynched and you died in the night, and you investigated ANYONE ELSE. The town would be left with an accurate read after your death. The way you did it? Nothing.

It's not that complicated, man. You made the weakest possible move and screwed the town doing it. You mad yourself look scummy AF because of it, while your outside and attitude kept away any sympathy.

I love the irony of the bad attitude not equaling scummy, when that was your guy's main reason to target Neville, even if he was town....

Neville figured out what was going on and used his knowledge to help town.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 02:13 AM
I've stopped reading this thread.

My reads were right, some people are manipulative slimeballz.

I don't care to analyse much else.

lethe
11-05-2017, 02:43 AM
Last words


#dickdeniers (http://forums.intpcomplex.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=dickdeniers)

Hephaestus
11-05-2017, 05:48 AM
Being abrasive, rude and obnoxious may not equal being mafia, but it does equal "I don't want to help you". This can take many forms, from not protecting you in the night, to ignoring your reads and leads, to just not being bothered if you get lynched.

"Logic" is not an excuse to dispense with civility.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 05:57 AM
If being "obnoxious, abrasive and rude" whilst also being correct is fair game in my book.

My insults are facts, no flights of fancy :lol:

Vison
11-05-2017, 06:01 AM
If being "obnoxious, abrasive and rude" whilst also being correct is fair game in my book.

My insults are facts, no flights of fancy :lol:

You have a lot to learn about how to get things done to your liking.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:03 AM
You have a lot to learn about how to get things done to your liking.

If you want a job done properly, you have to do it yourself!

And you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Vison
11-05-2017, 06:06 AM
If you want a job done properly, you have to do it yourself!

And you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Or its a cop out for trying to understand why other people do what they do. Being right doesn't get shit done, it only pacifies the self. If you want people to believe you, you have to understand the flock.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:09 AM
Or its a cop out for trying to understand why other people do what they do. Being right doesn't get shit done, it only pacifies the self. If you want people to believe you, you have to understand the flock.

Oh shut up, like any of you guys were even looking in the right place for the Mafia :lol:

I laid out some very clear arguments against Lethe which included the fact that she wasn't scum hunting, she was shadowing Neville, and bringing up "emotional manipulation" at every opportunity.

The nail in the coffin was "I've been writing a novel"

Literally a joke at Town expense.

But Noo.. you fell for the emotional manipulation bollox.

So don't talk to me about "convincing the flock"

We know the masses are retarded.

Vison
11-05-2017, 06:12 AM
Oh shut up, like any of you guys were even looking in the right place for the Mafia :lol:

I laid out some very clear arguments against Lethe which included the fact that she wasn't scum hunting, she was shadowing Neville, and bringing up "emotional manipulation" at every opportunity.

The nail in the coffin was "I've been writing a novel"

Literally a joke at Town expense.

But Noo.. you fell for the emotional manipulation bollox.

So don't talk to me about "convincing the flock"

We know the masses are retarded.

Nothing you have said convinces me you are outside the flock. Only that you hold contempt for them, the flock of the town you were supposed to be fighting for.

Hephaestus
11-05-2017, 06:13 AM
My insults are facts, no flights of fancy :lol:
Earlier you said not to take them seriously. Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:16 AM
I hold contempt towards idiots.

QT, Squishy and LightLeak aren't idiots.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:18 AM
Earlier you said not to take them seriously. Were you lying then, or are you lying now?

Neither. I still think they are facts, and I still think you shouldn't take them seriously, if they are going to offend you...

Cant say I care either way.

Vison
11-05-2017, 06:23 AM
Neither. I still think they are facts, and I still think you shouldn't take them seriously, if they are going to offend you...

Cant say I care either way.

You care enough to keep posting about your righteousness.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:26 AM
You care enough to keep posting about your righteousness.

I've got 33 minutes of nothing to do until I can leave work.

Sue me. :lol:

Robcore
11-05-2017, 06:31 AM
Why say stuff if you don't care whether people listen or not?! not logical.

Sinny
11-05-2017, 06:32 AM
Why say stuff if you don't care whether people listen or not?! not logical.

Egg mayonnaise.

Hephaestus
11-05-2017, 06:36 AM
Neither. I still think they are facts, and I still think you shouldn't take them seriously, if they are going to offend you...

Cant say I care either way.

I'll take you at your literal word. Thank you for answering.

LowIQLogan
11-05-2017, 09:45 AM
gg, i felt p dumb this whole game

Light Leak
11-05-2017, 01:38 PM
I laid out some very clear arguments against Lethe which included the fact that she wasn't scum hunting, she was shadowing Neville, and bringing up "emotional manipulation" at every opportunity.

I found it hard to believe your arguments for lethe because the two of you were constantly bickering. I wrote most of it off as that. I think lethe used this to her advantage.

Blorg
11-07-2017, 02:47 PM
well we have the troublemaker rules sorted out now so hopefully that won't be a problem in future games. If anyone starts wanting a new game in the next few weeks or months, just use this thread to write down a few potential start dates that would work for you :)

itch
11-07-2017, 07:55 PM
/IN for whenever.

Fitz
11-07-2017, 07:57 PM
I'm good for whenever. I need to keep up my streak of staying alive longer than Polemarch

Light Leak
11-07-2017, 08:00 PM
Whenever is also good for me.