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Sinny
12-15-2017, 08:09 AM
Are there any other Eights on the forum?

Expand on your Wings in the comments section, and tell me your opinions on Enneagram and how and if you think the system relates to you, as a self development tool.

kari
12-15-2017, 08:22 AM
8s are superior, I wish I was an 8 !

Sinny
12-15-2017, 08:27 AM
8s are superior, I wish I was an 8 !

Some Eights are vastly superior to just mere mortals, that is true.

However, most of us are not... We're just as shitty as eveybody else, with less social grace. :lol:

Extroverted Sensor Eights are just the worst to be stuck around irl when they're hell bent on negativity.. my good friend is one in fact, but when she's not being a swamp monster, she's fucking hilarious and has a motivating energy.

JohnClay
12-15-2017, 08:29 AM
5

Revenant
12-15-2017, 08:58 AM
5w4 is accurate enough. Apart from reading up on it, haven't put a huge amount of thought into the Enneagram system.
I remember reading the development stages, and it did mirror some earlier behaviour and issues.

It seemed to me that where MBTI is good for understanding how people interact with the world around them, Enneagrams are a good predictor of people's self doubts and insecurities. For example, as a 5 I'm often worried about gaps in my knowledge and being outsmarted. If you haven't noticed, sometimes if I don't know about a subject that comes up I'll hurriedly go away and read up on it so that I don't seem dumb. Of course, sometimes this backfires and I've read it so hurriedly that I skipped a vital detail. And the w4 I think is why it bugs me so much when anyone calls me Richard (it's so fucking common).

As you've said, though, we 5's tend to think about some weird shit and be in our own little worlds all the time. I'm trying to learn to be a bit more in the here & now and I'm hoping I've picked up a bit of attention to detail over the past few months :mellow:

kari
12-15-2017, 08:58 AM
I’m 7w8

Constant pursuit of adventure and novelty baby

Sinny
12-15-2017, 09:11 AM
5w4 is accurate enough. Apart from reading up on it, haven't put a huge amount of thought into the Enneagram system.
I remember reading the development stages, and it did mirror some earlier behaviour and issues.

It seemed to me that where MBTI is good for understanding how people interact with the world around them, Enneagrams are a good predictor of people's self doubts and insecurities. For example, as a 5 I'm often worried about gaps in my knowledge and being outsmarted. If you haven't noticed, sometimes if I don't know about a subject that comes up I'll hurriedly go away and read up on it so that I don't seem dumb. Of course, sometimes this backfires and I've read it so hurriedly that I skipped a vital detail. And the w4 I think is why it bugs me so much when anyone calls me Richard (it's so fucking common).

As you've said, though, we 5's tend to think about some weird shit and be in our own little worlds all the time. I'm trying to learn to be a bit more in the here & now and I'm hoping I've picked up a bit of attention to detail over the past few months :mellow:

Classic INTP 5 ...would rather sit around inventing theoretical drugs than actually do something constructive.. Could probably recite 300 geeky facts from the top of your head, but doesn't know how to interact with people.

My concern over you folk is that you're pretty much useless in real world situations, with no natural instincts what so ever, beyond wanting to refer to the internet or a textbook.

I was just thinking about which Ennea would be most useful on a dream team.. and surprisingly, to me, 5's aren't even up there for me.

I used to be impressed with 5s, until I started interacting with them.

Sinny
12-15-2017, 09:35 AM
Rep: Yea, I would say it depends on "Health levels", stages of psychological development, coping mechanisms, and how we deal with our early conditioning.

To take the Eight for example:


Type Eight—Levels of Development


Healthy Levels

Level : (At Their Best): Become self-restrained and magnanimous, merciful and forbearing, mastering self through their self-surrender to a higher authority. Courageous, willing to put self in serious jeopardy to achieve their vision and have a lasting influence. May achieve true heroism and historical greatness.

Level 2: Self-assertive, self-confident, and strong: have learned to stand up for what they need and want. A resourceful, "can do" attitude and passionate inner drive.

Level 3: Decisive, authoritative, and commanding: the natural leader others look up to. Take initiative, make things happen: champion people, provider, protective, and honorable, carrying others with their strength.

Average Levels

Level 4: Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.

Level 5: Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.

Level 6: Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent.

Level 8: Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self.

Level 9: If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder.


I don't think any of these "levels" are static.. but they are decent general guide to the state of one's current health, when taking into account all weaknesses and strengths.

My EXFP Eight friend generally stuck in the mind set of Levels 5 & 6. Exacerbated by very little self awareness of her own destructive behaviours.

She's boastful, belligerent, frequently makes threats, and sometimes thinks she invincible, much to the disdain of her partner..

I'm an Eight, we have some things in common, but I'm introverted so I don't actually go around yelling at people and causing a scene like she does..

I'm probably generally in the mentality of Level 4.. I have goods days,.where I'm positive and magnanimous, I have bad days where I just wish everyone were dead... But the most important thing I have, that many average Eights don't is self awareness of my destructive tendencies.

But like any average, Eight I indulge in that destruction anyway.

I don't think an Eight can be truly happy when they feel so many things are out of their control.. and that's where I am and how I feel.

Revenant
12-15-2017, 09:37 AM
The majority of INTP's appear to be type 5. And it depends on what that team is trying to accomplish.

Learning to put theory into practice is the biggest downfall of the 5, I would say. Doing so means we can be superior to you mere mortals.

For example, my build. Which you have to admit - I look good without clothes. I don't think you even believed me that I was skinny, weak runt only a few years ago but worked out how to change that and did so.

Sinny
12-15-2017, 09:49 AM
I saw a photo, I believe you were a skinny, weak, runt.

It's probably only because your manhood took a blow when your marriage failed, I presume, you decided to do something about that.

Maybe if you done it before, you would kept your woman.

Revenant
12-15-2017, 10:11 AM
Certainly not the thread for that discussion - but no, those things are totally unrelated.

I was just reading the health levels of the type 5. I could probably put ages on some of these.
I think I generally alternate between 4 and 5, but at the moment I have some drive to put theory into practice with a few things.




Levels of Development Enneagram Type 5
************************************************** *******************************************
Healthy Levels:
1. Level of Liberation
External Behaviors- Visionary, pioneering, profound, knowing, compassionate, enraptured, revolutionary, energetic
Internal Attitudes- Participating, immediately apprehending, comprehending, clear-minded, awed, trusting, non-attached
Self-Actualization- Let's go of their identification with a particular self-image, that they are separate from the environment (an outside observer)
Basic Fear- Of being helpless, useless, incapable, overwhelmed

2. Level of Psychological Capacity
External Behaviors- Perceptive, "smart", curious, aware, unusual, playful
Internal Attitudes- Observant, attentive, fascinated, unsentimental, objective, sensory acuity
Desires- To be capable and competent (to have something to contribute)
Fear- That they are not smart enough: their perceptions are insufficient to give them confidence.

3. Level of Social Value
External Behaviors- Innovative, original, skillful, inventive, creative, learning, communicative, tinkering
Internal Attitudes- Focused, exploratory, open-minded, patient, whimsical, independent, uncompromising, concentrating
Desires- To master something to gain confidence (to create a niche for themselves)
Fear- That they have nothing valuable to contribute (unprepared)


************************************************** *******************************************
Average Levels:Social Role: The know-it-all
4. Level of Imbalance
External Behaviors- Withdrawing, preparing, acquiring technique, collecting, studious, practicing, delaying closure, non-conforming, expert, dilettantish
Internal Attitudes- Conceptualizing, knowledgeable, encyclopedic, model building, abstracting, uncensored, uncertain, "fine tuning", analytic, acquisitive
Desires- To feel safer and more confident by retreating into their mind and imagination ("Tinker Toy")
Fear- That others will demand too much from them, their inner world will be threatened.


5. Level of Interpersonal Control
External Behaviors- Preoccupied, interpreting, creating worlds, speculative, impractical, high strung, secretive, compartmentalized, offbeat, flighty
Internal Attitudes- Detached, minimizing, intense, agitated, ignoring needs, complexifying, absent minded, feel distant, indiscriminate
Desires- To shut out intrusions (by intensifying their mental activity)
Fear- That others are attacking their niche/competency

6. Level of Overcompensation
External Behaviors- Provocative, argumentative, scornful, antagonistic, contentious, prickly, far-fetched, submissive, insensitive
Internal Attitudes- Extreme, intellectually arrogant, distrusting, cynical, pessimistic, jumping to conclusions, stingy, avaricious, impatient
Desires- To scare off anyone who threatens their niche/inner world
Red Flag Fear- That they are never going to find a place in the world or with people


************************************************** ******************************************
Unhealthy Levels:
7. Level of Violation
External Behaviors- Isolated, eccentric, unstable, rejecting, retreating, emptying, burn bridges, dissipated
Internal Attitudes- Nihilistic, devaluing, dark fantasies, feel besieged, guilt-ridden, no expectations, feel defenseless, impulsive
Desires- To cut off all connections with the world and people ("to hell with everything")
Fear- The world is closing in on them

8. Level of Delusion & Compulsion
External Behaviors- Delirious, hallucinating, projecting, repelling, sinister, chronic insomnia, erratic
Internal Attitudes- Horrified, distorting, weird perceptions, highly schizoid, overheated/nauseous, resisting all help, manic-depressive
Desires- To endure their terrors (staring into the abyss)
Fear- That they can no longer defend themselves (from outside or inside influences)

9. Level of Pathological Destructiveness
External Behaviors- Self-Annihilating, psychotic breaks, deranged, suicidal, "autistic", annihilating, paralyzed
Internal Attitudes- Seeking Oblivion, imploded, split off, inner chaos, feel damned, panic stricken
Desires- To leave "reality", to cease all sensory input, to break away from their own consciousness
Fear- Basic fear comes true: they are helpless, useless, and incapable

************************************************** ********************************************

Sinny
12-15-2017, 10:14 AM
You decided to randomly bring up your naked body.

Where did the motivation for that come from? Hindsight, like everything else in your life? As an Eight, I value foresight.

But yeah, anyway.. Back to 5s.

Revenant
12-15-2017, 10:28 AM
I could have brought up all I'm doing right now, but that's in progress so although the drive to turn vision and theory into follow through is there, it remains to be proven in reality. So I chose something I have proof of (and am actually quite proud of).

So where is everyone else on the health levels?

Sinny
12-15-2017, 01:06 PM
What do you mean you "worked out how to change that"

I know they had PE classes back in your day!

What you mean is, you got off your lazy arse and started moving it.

And yea, you are now working on constructive projects at home... Because it took at Eight tell you how blind and oblivious you are to certain things.

You'd still be hapless, otherwise.

And that's why 5's don't make my Elite cut.
I'd need agents who are Field ready. Your kind belong in a lab, a lecture hall, or no where at all.

jigglypuff
12-15-2017, 02:41 PM
is this thread about enneagram?

5w4 sp/sx (possibly sx dominant idk)

“tritype” 548 if we’re doing that

i only identify with “healthy” levels of type 5 nowadays. probably around a 3. action & creation is important to me and i'm not satisfied with stopping at the fine-tuning or conceptualizing stage.


Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Become visionaries, broadly comprehending the world while penetrating it profoundly. Open-minded, take things in whole, in their true context. Make pioneering discoveries and find entirely new ways of doing and perceiving things.

Level 2: Observe everything with extraordinary perceptiveness and insight. Most mentally alert, curious, searching intelligence: nothing escapes their notice. Foresight and prediction. Able to concentrate: become engrossed in what has caught their attention.

Level 3: Attain skillful mastery of whatever interests them. Excited by knowledge: often become expert in some field. Innovative and inventive, producing extremely valuable, original works. Highly independent, idiosyncratic, and whimsical.

Average Levels

Level 4: Begin conceptualizing and fine-tuning everything before acting—working things out in their minds: model building, preparing, practicing, and gathering more resources. Studious, acquiring technique. Become specialized, and often "intellectual," often challenging accepted ways of doing things.

Level 5: Increasingly detached as they become involved with complicated ideas or imaginary worlds. Become preoccupied with their visions and interpretations rather than reality. Are fascinated by off-beat, esoteric subjects, even those involving dark and disturbing elements. Detached from the practical world, a "disembodied mind," although high-strung and intense.

Level 6: Begin to take an antagonistic stance toward anything which would interfere with their inner world and personal vision. Become provocative and abrasive, with intentionally extreme and radical views. Cynical and argumentative.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Become reclusive and isolated from reality, eccentric and nihilistic. Highly unstable and fearful of aggressions: they reject and repulse others and all social attachments.

Level 8: Get obsessed yet frightened by their threatening ideas, becoming horrified, delirious, and prey to gross distortions and phobias.

Level 9: Seeking oblivion, they may commit suicide or have a psychotic break with reality. Deranged, explosively self-destructive, with schizophrenic overtones. Generally corresponds to the Schizoid Avoidant and Schizotypal personality disorders.

Lilith
12-15-2017, 06:07 PM
Drawing from the theoretical framework, it is very rare that an INTP can be an 8. Improbable is the word. Enneagram theory deals with fear and motivation. Is power an INTP's primary motivation? Nah.

In MBTI language, Eights are usually ExTJs.

Sinny, you might want to rethink your MBTI type? :p




I'm 3w4. Level 3 (self-report). That strong drive to be the best that I can be. Self-doubt can be crippling.


Healthy Levels

Level 1 (At Their Best): Self-accepting, inner-directed, and authentic, everything they seem to be. Modest and charitable, self-deprecatory humor and a fullness of heart emerge. Gentle and benevolent.

Level 2: Self-assured, energetic, and competent with high self-esteem: they believe in themselves and their own value. Adaptable, desirable, charming, and gracious.

Level 3: Ambitious to improve themselves, to be "the best they can be"—often become outstanding, a human ideal, embodying widely admired cultural qualities. Highly effective: others are motivated to be like them in some positive way.

Average Levels

Level 4: Highly concerned with their performance, doing their job well, constantly driving self to achieve goals as if self-worth depends on it. Terrified of failure. Compare self with others in search for status and success. Become careerists, social climbers, invested in exclusivity and being the "best."

Level 5: Become image-conscious, highly concerned with how they are perceived. Begin to package themselves according to the expectations of others and what they need to do to be successful. Pragmatic and efficient, but also premeditated, losing touch with their own feelings beneath a smooth facade. Problems with intimacy, credibility, and "phoniness" emerge.

Level 6: Want to impress others with their superiority: constantly promoting themselves, making themselves sound better than they really are. Narcissistic, with grandiose, inflated notions about themselves and their talents. Exhibitionistic and seductive, as if saying "Look at me!" Arrogance and contempt for others is a defense against feeling jealous of others and their success.

Unhealthy Levels

Level 7: Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do "whatever it takes" to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

Level 8: Devious and deceptive so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to triumph over them. Delusionally jealous of others

Level 9: Become vindictive, attempting to ruin others' happiness. Relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings and failures. Psychopathic behavior. Generally corresponds to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Stigmata
12-15-2017, 06:12 PM
5w4

Mxx
12-15-2017, 07:16 PM
This is the hardest typology for me to apply to myself, I can't really get through the questions without reaching choice paralysis.

Take this test for example:

http://www.9types.com/rheti/index.php

With almost every question, I would have to select both options for it to accurately reflect both sides of my personality that I cycle in and out off. I"m pretty much 50/50 down the line.

kari
12-15-2017, 07:57 PM
You are most likely a type 8w7



Type 8 - 10.4
Type 7 - 9.7
Type 3 - 9.7
Type 2 - 6.4
Type 1 - 6.4
Type 4 - 6
Type 9 - 5.3

Wing 8w7 - 15.3
Wing 7w8 - 14.9
Wing 8w9 - 13.1
Wing 3w2 - 12.9
Wing 3w4 - 12.7
Wing 2w3 - 11.3
Wing 4w3 - 10.9
Wing 9w8 - 10.5
Wing 7w6 - 10.2
Wing 1w2 - 9.6
Wing 2w1 - 9.6
Wing 1w9 - 9.1
Wing 9w1 - 8.5
Wing 4w5 - 6.4

hmm weird
hi sinny


I don't identify with the 8 "controlling people" part and the 7 "avoiding pain" part

oxyjen
12-15-2017, 08:13 PM
Intps are overwhelmingly ennea 5.

Agree with Lilith that there is mistyping afoot for an intp/8 combo.

flurps
12-15-2017, 08:47 PM
Just your regular 548 sp/sx self preservation subtype with extra youngest child irresponsibility thrown in for even more dereliction of duty than usual. I never found it hard to figure out after taking the test a couple times and reading all the 5 descriptions out there on the internet, which are manifold.

Sinny is your garden variety depressed working class entj struggling with a pretty much unwinnable economic situation, smoking pot to get past the normal limits of human physical and emotional endurance. I've never done that. :whistle:

Sinny
12-15-2017, 08:47 PM
No, I disagree with those stating I've mistyped.

The two systems are completely independent of each other.

Enneagram motivation and MBTI "motivation" are two completely different things.

Say more later.

jigglypuff
12-15-2017, 08:54 PM
Just your regular 548 sp/sx self preservation subtype with extra youngest child irresponsibility thrown in for even more dereliction of duty than usual.

i’m the youngest child too but treated as the oldest. i think my asstrological chart explains it. sun libra/moon leo/ascendant capricorn represent

flurps
12-15-2017, 09:05 PM
i’m the youngest child too but treated as the oldest. i think my asstrological chart explains it. sun libra/moon leo/ascendant capricorn represent

Oh, boy. My wife has gotten me as far to admit that birth seasons can potentially have an effect on personality (there was a pop psychology article about it) but I stop there. My summer born kid was quite shocked to start developing a long term memory at two and a half, in winter, right when the nights get dark and cold. doesn't really suit her personality.

Sun and moon Scorpio here, argh. Argh for knowing that, argh for the stereotypes. Blech for talking about it. God.

kari
12-15-2017, 09:07 PM
No, I disagree with those stating I've mistyped.

The two systems are completely independent of each other.

Enneagram motivation and MBTI "motivation" are two completely different things.

Say more later.
They’re correlated but you might just be an outlier.

Sinny
12-15-2017, 09:16 PM
Of course I'm an outlier :p

jigglypuff
12-15-2017, 09:38 PM
This is the hardest typology for me to apply to myself, I can't really get through the questions without reaching choice paralysis.

Take this test for example:

http://www.9types.com/rheti/index.php

With almost every question, I would have to select both options for it to accurately reflect both sides of my personality that I cycle in and out off. I"m pretty much 50/50 down the line.

i've never come across this test before, it's kinda weird. my top 3 types according to this are: 5 (scored 8), 8 (scored 7), then type 1 and 3 (both 4)

but that fits in a weird way.


Oh, boy. My wife has gotten me as far to admit that birth seasons can potentially have an effect on personality (there was a pop psychology article about it) but I stop there. My summer born kid was quite shocked to start developing a long term memory at two and a half, in winter, right when the nights get dark and cold. doesn't really suit her personality.

Sun and moon Scorpio here, argh. Argh for knowing that, argh for the stereotypes. Blech for talking about it. God.

lol. astrology is bullshit, but i can see the water sign.

Revenant
12-15-2017, 11:27 PM
She's not an ExTP.

PureViolence
12-16-2017, 12:00 AM
i'm 7 or 4 with some 8
i've seen some 8 people, i believe there's an 8 in my class but u know, when 8s lack intelligence they go down on their own, no need to even confront

Sinny
12-16-2017, 01:41 AM
She's not an ExTP.


You're not qualified to have an opinion on my type, because you've already been wrong several times... Which amazes me because I've already told you the answer.

Your disbelief means you think me either incompetent, a liar or both, which is a notion greatly insulting, and deserving of my contempt.

PureViolence
12-16-2017, 03:11 AM
yeah just took this test, pretty short one

https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2

got 7w8

Sinny
12-18-2017, 09:03 AM
Rep: Yea, I can totally relate..

I'm a big believer in people only having as much power over you as you allow them to have.. and being so firmly in control of the boundaries with most other people can become boring, so you seek out somebody else who knows how to push the boundaries... But ultimately he's just a tool in your self exploration.. the novelty will wear off, and you'll move onto something else.

Diggity
12-19-2017, 10:11 AM
I'm a 7w8.
Makes sense i suppose.

QuickTwist
01-01-2018, 01:33 PM
I'm prolly a 451, but I could be a 541 as well.

https://i.imgur.com/fp5fEuQ.png

Sinny why are you being a bitch all the sudden? What happened?

Sinny
01-01-2018, 01:46 PM
I'm prolly a 451, but I could be a 541 as well.

https://i.imgur.com/fp5fEuQ.png

Sinny why are you being a bitch all the sudden? What happened?

Not sure what you're referring too?
I've been a bitch all me life :lol:

QuickTwist
01-01-2018, 01:56 PM
Not sure what you're referring too?
I've been a bitch all me life :lol:

I didn't realize you liked being called a bitch, lol.

QuickTwist
01-01-2018, 02:42 PM
This is the hardest typology for me to apply to myself, I can't really get through the questions without reaching choice paralysis.

Take this test for example:

http://www.9types.com/rheti/index.php

With almost every question, I would have to select both options for it to accurately reflect both sides of my personality that I cycle in and out off. I"m pretty much 50/50 down the line.

If that is the case, you are prolly a 3, 6, or 9.

Ptah
01-01-2018, 03:23 PM
I consistently test 1w9

Robcore
01-01-2018, 06:31 PM
9w1 here (952 tritype 9w1,5w4,2w1)

Wouldn't say I'm conflict-avoiding so much as resolution-aspiring, but yeah.

Sistamatic
01-01-2018, 07:23 PM
Scored 5 after agonizing over the false dichotomies for way too long - I'm such an INTP stereotype.

Robcore
01-01-2018, 09:49 PM
Scored 5 after agonizing over the false dichotomies for way too long - I'm such an INTP stereotype.

What wing are you? apparently w6es are more likely to be objective and systematic than w4s, who are the more subjective of the investigators...
...and it seems like INTPs are usually w4s, while INTJs tend to be w6es? I'm not super familiar with enneagram, though, so I could be wrong.

Obfuscate
01-01-2018, 10:12 PM
9w1

or 954 if you prefer that...

Sistamatic
01-01-2018, 10:50 PM
What wing are you? apparently w6es are more likely to be objective and systematic than w4s, who are the more subjective of the investigators...
...and it seems like INTPs are usually w4s, while INTJs tend to be w6es? I'm not super familiar with enneagram, though, so I could be wrong.


Hmmm, gonna say I'm a four if left to my own devices. I'm only sixy when my fourness keeps me from getting anything accomplished, and it's a sixiness born of necessity, not natural inclination.