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Thread: What do you think about abortion?

  1. #1
    Member Phil P's Avatar
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    What do you think about abortion?

    I think it serves as allowing men and women the option to forgo a current, on the way child for one in the future. I look at it this way, people only want so many kids, whether that be 0, 2, 5, or 10. If women don't have an abortion, then that child comes at the cost of future potential children. So, in cases of rape, incest, or severe special needs situations, by forgoing these children which will have it harder in life and make life harder for the mother, the parents or mother opts for a kid in the future with less challenges, or no kid, depending on their choice.

    Being around special needs children and adults, I know that raising them takes an extreme toll on the parents. Taking care of one special needs kid can be just as demanding as taking care of 5 standard children. It fundamentally changes the parents life and requirements for life. The more dismal side is that of the adults with special needs that I have heard about or met, a significant portion of them fail to take care of what they can do for themselves and remain continually dependent upon others even in areas where they don't need assistance. So, to say that abortion is not an option for parents of a special needs kid to be is a real infringement on their rights IMO.

    About the unborn child's rights, I see the killing as unethical, but no more unethical than killing an animal just to eat it. Because unborn children haven't had many experiences or interaction invested into them, so killing a fetus is not the same as killing a 1 year old.

    What do you think though?
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    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree. The question of aborting special needs kids is a tricky one because it leads down a slippery slope to designer babies . I think all pregnancies are better off planned and wanted but I respect that some women might want to carry to term anyway. So it's difficult to avoid a dilemma where designer babies are in a whole other social class compared to natural ones a la gattaca and eventually history is forgotten and it becomes a new glass ceiling.

    I think maybe we can work around this by focusing on developments in gene therapy etc so that a 'natural' person can be converted cheaply if they choose. That way we won't leave behind the older generations either
    Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless. Like water. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    I believe that people should have the right to make decisions about their bodies without the judgement of others.

    The politicization of abortion has had terrible social and medical consequences, particularly as medical decisions are being made by politicians who care about politics more than health issues. In my own experience, I delayed seeking medical help for non-abortion lady issues* because my health insurance came from a religious institution (via my father's employment). I knew that religious institutions were given exemptions for some women health services, but I couldn't find out if my case was covered or not without having a potentially disastrous conversation with my parents. Fortunately, my situation was fairly mild, but if corporations win the right to make their own exemptions on healthcare, there will be many, much worse, cases.

    *One of those lady issues actually ended up being a UTI- two weeks of terrible pain and running out of the middle of class to find out it wasn't even a sex problem. Maybe I would've known better if my sex education wasn't so restricted, but that's another issue.
    Last edited by sandwitch; 04-21-2014 at 12:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    The question of aborting special needs kids is a tricky one because it leads down a slippery slope to designer babies
    I ask this question regardless of what I think of abortion: What's wrong with "designer babies" if there is nothing wrong with abortion first?

  5. #5
    a fool on a journey pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm down with making designer babies. If we can avoid having special needs kids in the first place isn't that better for society overall? The more control we have over the types of people we're going to bring into the world, the better.

  6. #6
    Scala Mountains Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwitch View Post
    I believe that people should have the right to make decisions about their bodies without the judgement of others.

    The politicization of abortion has had terrible social and medical consequences, particularly as medical decisions are being made by politicians who care about politics more than health issues. In my own experience, I delayed seeking medical help for non-abortion lady issues* because my health insurance came from a religious institution (via my father's employment). I knew that religious institutions were given exemptions for some women health services, but I couldn't find out if my case was covered or not without having a potentially disastrous conversation with my parents. Fortunately, my situation was fairly mild, but if corporations win the right to make their own exemptions on healthcare, there will be many, much worse, cases.

    *One of those lady issues actually ended up being a UTI- two weeks of terrible pain and running out of the middle of class to find out it wasn't even a sex problem. Maybe I would've known better if my sex education wasn't so restricted, but that's another issue.
    It kind of baffles me that this is still a thing in a developed Western country. I sincerely hope that human rights do not remain a commodity in the US for much longer. Like, what is even stopping them? Do they feel that strongly that people should not be allowed to make their own decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thevenin View Post
    I ask this question regardless of what I think of abortion: What's wrong with "designer babies" if there is nothing wrong with abortion first?
    It's a problem that has mostly only been explored in scifi but the worry is that 'natural' people may become a marginalised group due to the greater risk of developmental complications or failure to meet some breeding standard which may develop down the road.

    It's not that there is something inherently wrong about it, just that we (humans) have a track record of being pathetically superficial.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Tetris Champion notdavidlynch's Avatar
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    We need fewer people around.

  8. #8
    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonance View Post
    It kind of baffles me that this is still a thing in a developed Western country. I sincerely hope that human rights do not remain a commodity in the US for much longer. Like, what is even stopping them? Do they feel that strongly that people should not be allowed to make their own decisions?
    I'm starting to look into the possibilities for Canadian citizenship. At some point my idealistic hope to change social dynamic will run out, and I'd like to have healthcare when that happens.

    It's a problem that has mostly only been explored in scifi but the worry is that 'natural' people may become a marginalised group due to the greater risk of developmental complications or failure to meet some breeding standard which may develop down the road.

    It's not that there is something inherently wrong about it, just that we (humans) have a track record of being pathetically superficial.
    I should watch Gattaca again.

  9. #9
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathogenetic_peripatetic View Post
    Yeah, I'm down with making designer babies. If we can avoid having special needs kids in the first place isn't that better for society overall? The more control we have over the types of people we're going to bring into the world, the better.
    Who gets to define who is good enough to be born?
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  10. #10
    Member MacGuffin's Avatar
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    I think human life begins at conception and no one has ever been able to definitively point to another part of the biological process as a better alternative.

    Where rights attach to that life however is a trickier question. For example, not everyone has all the rights guaranteed by the US Constitution for all ages and situations. To give a clump of cells the same rights as a sentient human being borders on the absurd. On the other hand, go too far down this road and you end up culling the mentally retarded.

    I don't think there will ever be a consensus about abortion. The goal for society is to make birth control so easy, safe, and accessible that abortion is an extremely rare medical procedure that is not done without newsworthy circumstances.

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