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Thread: Climate Centered Populist Movement

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    Climate Centered Populist Movement

    Because global climate change, which is already affecting the lives of thousands, will clearly continue at a devastating pace, I see no other solution to stop it than a mass movement united under one goal, survival. This action must be initiated from below. There are people with substantial power in this country who'd sooner see the earth turned into a desert before sacrificing a dime or drop of sweat from their brow. And we can't stand for it. We must organize. I'm talking, spreading propaganda through art and literature to combat dissenting corporations. And I'm talking, making demands, creating work-projects, and severely reprimanding those who don't cooperate. This has turned into a non-democratic issue. There is no more time for politics.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers!* View Post
    Because global climate change, which is already affecting the lives of thousands, will clearly continue at a devastating pace, I see no other solution to stop it than a mass movement united under one goal, survival. This action must be initiated from below. There are people with substantial power in this country who'd sooner see the earth turned into a desert before sacrificing a dime or drop of sweat from their brow. And we can't stand for it. We must organize. I'm talking, spreading propaganda through art and literature to combat dissenting corporations. And I'm talking, making demands, creating work-projects, and severely reprimanding those who don't cooperate. This has turned into a non-democratic issue. There is no more time for politics.
    I agree that the Earth may tell us it's game over before we get our shit together politically, but how do you stop governments and big businesses from irreparably destroying the planet if not by getting our shit together politically? Catch-22.

    You're not going to get people to unite under a radical environmentalist movement because people will naturally experience environmental destruction without any sense of urgency; it will be more like a slow death.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

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    Senior Member Makers!*'s Avatar
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    If the demands are loud enough, the goverment will be forced to respond politically. They will have to respond, otherwise the people will have failed and many thousands will die for it, beginning with the poorest, working up. This will happen, if not in our generation, then the next. My children's generation.
    Last edited by Makers!*; 06-28-2014 at 04:02 PM.

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    Scobblelotcher Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Necessary, but perhaps not sufficient precondition for solving this problem: A scientifically literate population comprised of people with meta-self-awareness who can think critically about the claims politicians and corporations make and thereby cut through the bullshit and the pretty packaging bought by billions of advertising dollars and see through the applied psychology contained therein.

    Of course since science is frequently painted as a red-headed stepchild by the rather successful populist movement known in America as the Christian Coalition, I don't know where to start. They've somehow managed to paint believing in AGW as unchristian and being unchristian as being unamerican. About ten or fifteen percent of my students save up their excused absences for when we cover evolution. I know who they are because I put in a multiple choice question about the age of the earth with 6000 years as a choice, and the people who have perfect attendance except for evolution almost invariably pick it. I imagine they even feel really good about themselves as christian martyrs when they take the hit on the points. Probably brag about their persecution at church. If people are putting their fingers in their ears for fear of being contaminated every time you try to teach them about AGW, how do you make them change?

    Funny aside. I initially read your post title as Climate Centered Pugilist Movement. Hmmm. Maybe that's the answer. Every time someone denies AGW, an invisible hand punches them in the face. Maybe we should be dedicating our scientific resources to making that happen.

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    Funny aside. I initially read your post title as Climate Centered Pugilist Movement. Hmmm. Maybe that's the answer. Every time someone denies AGW, an invisible hand punches them in the face. Maybe we should be dedicating our scientific resources to making that happen.
    Once we do, we'll need to consider whether or not anyone mentions it to the opposition you've mentioned. I mean, wouldn't it work best if they didn't know it was the result of scientific R&D?
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    About ten or fifteen percent of my students save up their excused absences for when we cover evolution. I know who they are because I put in a multiple choice question about the age of the earth with 6000 years as a choice, and the people who have perfect attendance except for evolution almost invariably pick it.
    Would it put your job in jeopardy to fail anyone who persists to believe that the earth is less than a million years old?

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    Scobblelotcher Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwitch View Post
    Would it put your job in jeopardy to fail anyone who persists to believe that the earth is less than a million years old?
    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwitch View Post
    Would it put your job in jeopardy to fail anyone who persists to believe that the earth is less than a million years old?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    yes
    So, so scary. Morons abound.

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    I don't think you can separate the political issues here from the environmental issues, it'd be addressing all the symptoms without addressing the core problems. Environmental issues affect the poorest but current forms of governments only respond to the interests of the wealthy, so any movement which is serious about doing anything more than pandering to the needs of the environment has to also change that part of the system. Generally all this mostly sticks environmentalism in with the left since you have to weaken the power of corporations in order to address this. Right wingers could theoretically approach environmentalism in a 'you break it you bought it' sort of way (properly allocating cost) but never seem to.

    I'm not sure if some sort of 'enlightened' running of our current system could affect change if we all really wanted to (ie if radioactive sewage was flooding through gated communities everyday) but it would be interesting to see if its feasible and what it would look like.

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    yes
    Failing would be over the top. But, I could see docking points everytime it came up on a test and they answered other than the course demanded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thevenin View Post
    So, so scary. Morons abound.
    Not that scary. That data point is largely meaningless--other than as a litmus test for a probable host of other more legitimately concerning beliefs. But believing the earth is six thousand or six billion years old has very little immediate relevancy to much of anything. Not that I would ever chastise someone for accumulating knowledge with little known practical value. Things come in handy in often surprising ways.

    I'm not convinced the official estimates of record are remotely more than wild ass guesses based on what, to someone, somewhere, seemed like a decent set of simplifying assumptions. But then, I've only been shown how those numbers were calculated--which works--but no one has ever explained why the assumptions were made to fill in the blanks so the calculation could even be performed in the first place--or at the most extreme, the explanations were based on apparently circular reasoning.

    Fortunately, my decision making doesn't depend on the accuracy of such estimates--though they do present an ominous shadow regarding how similarly contrived estimates with equally political/ideological motivations behind them are made.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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