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Thread: Dawkins' views on rape

  1. #1
    New Member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Dawkins' views on rape

    Richard Dawkins Just Claimed Some Rape Is “Worse” Than Others

    Thoughts? Don't wanna influence answers, so I won't opine for now.

    Richard Dawkins has said "date rape is bad" and "stranger rape at knifepoint is worse" and contrasted "mild" paedophilia with "violent" paedophilia on Twitter.

    The writer, known for his atheism and books including The God Delusion, emphasised he was not approving anything but giving examples of a "syllogism" - logical argument where the comparisons do not imply any endorsement of either.

    After starting the discussion using X and Y, he went on to other examples.

    He wrote: "Mild paedophilia is bad. Violent paedophilia is worse. If you think that's an endorsement of mild paedophilia, go away and learn how to think."

    Dawkins then went on to "date rape" versus "stranger rape".

    "Date rape is bad. Stranger rape at knifepoint is worse. If you think that's an endorsement of date rape, go away and learn how to think," one tweet said.

    His 17,900 followers were quick to respond, with some approving the logical argument but others being less impressed.

    One person told the evolutionary biologist to "go away and learn compassion" while another sarcastically suggested he could "make a list ranking types of rape from worst to least worst".

    Dawkins parodied harsh responses by later tweeting: "'Stealing £1 is bad. Stealing an old lady's life savings is worse.' How DARE you rank them? Stealing is stealing. You're vile, appalling."

    He finished Monday’s discussion by saying he learned that people on Twitter "think in absolutist terms".

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...r-9634572.html
    Last edited by Rasofy; 08-07-2014 at 02:17 AM.

  2. #2
    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    I think most people would agree with the sentiment.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    I dunno. I get the point he's making about the comparisons, but I'm not sure I agree with the second one. Stranger rape at knife point... I haven't experienced it, but I'm sure it's terrifying. But date rape really sucks too, and in that scenario you're being victimized by someone you might trust and like and want to have a relationship with, maybe somebody who shares the same social circle. After it's over that seems like it could be harder to deal with.

    I also think the context in which you're making the comparison is pretty significant. If someone was raped by an acquaintance and you start talking about how much worse stranger rape is, you definitely are minimizing what happened to that person

  4. #4
    New Member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathogenetic_peripatetic View Post
    I also think the context in which you're making the comparison is pretty significant. If someone was raped by an acquaintance and you start talking about how much worse stranger rape is, you definitely are minimizing what happened to that person
    Fair.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Starjots's Avatar
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    Not sure if he was talking about rape or logic.

  6. #6
    wetback Space Invaders Champion Fitz's Avatar
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    I see no issue with any of it.

    Some things are worse than other things. surprise.

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    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    He finished Monday’s discussion by saying he learned that people on Twitter this Planet "think in absolutist terms".
    I imagine that this was the point all along.
    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathogenetic_peripatetic View Post
    I dunno. I get the point he's making about the comparisons, but I'm not sure I agree with the second one. Stranger rape at knife point... I haven't experienced it, but I'm sure it's terrifying. But date rape really sucks too, and in that scenario you're being victimized by someone you might trust and like and want to have a relationship with, maybe somebody who shares the same social circle. After it's over that seems like it could be harder to deal with.

    I also think the context in which you're making the comparison is pretty significant. If someone was raped by an acquaintance and you start talking about how much worse stranger rape is, you definitely are minimizing what happened to that person
    I was thinking much the same. I've no idea which is worse--or even if one is quantifiably worse because the circumstances and aftermath are so different. I've no frame of reference for comparison.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neville View Post
    I see no issue with any of it.

    Some things are worse than other things. surprise.
    I agree. It's just that things like rape and paedophilia are hot button emotional issues so people overreact.

    If he had said getting mugged is bad, getting mugged and beaten is worse, and getting mugged and murdered is even worse, everybody would shrug and say "of course". Nobody would think he was condoning mugging.

  10. #10
    Utisz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I was thinking much the same. I've no idea which is worse--or even if one is quantifiably worse because the circumstances and aftermath are so different. I've no frame of reference for comparison.
    Yup. Apples and oranges basically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senseye View Post
    I agree. It's just that things like rape and paedophilia are hot button emotional issues so people overreact.

    If he had said getting mugged is bad, getting mugged and beaten is worse, and getting mugged and murdered is even worse, everybody would shrug and say "of course". Nobody would think he was condoning mugging.
    And if he were to say that having a friend steal money from your purse/wallet while you slept is logically better than having some kid take your purse/wallet at knifepoint, would you agree?

    At this point you may well be eager to tell me how shitty my analogy is and I agree with you the two situations are not at all comparable and I have no fucking clue what I'm talking about and neither does Dawkins and that's my point. Him claiming he can apply a logical total ordering of the worseness of two broad categories of rape cases is "logical" is pretty much bullshit ... or at least me and him differ on the nuances of the semantics of the term "worse".



    Admittedly though I'm biased. Dawkins fucking annoys me and I'm not precisely sure why (though I have my hunches).

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