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Thread: for those who don't want children...

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    for those who don't want children...

    when and how did you come to the realization?

    i'm curious. i'm starting to feel that way myself, although i'd still consider myself ambivalent. my partner will go with whatever i want but he's definitely not itching to have kids and is leaning towards not having them. i still like kids. i think being a parent would be extremely rewarding, and certainly if i ever found myself in that position i'd put my all into my parenting role.

    the decision to not have children is often framed as selfish, but i don't see it that way at all. how is it selfish? you're depriving your child of a life when they don't even exist?

    i'd like to hear your thoughts.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    They think that people who don't want to spawn actually want to live only for themselves. Which is stupid, since any other pursuit in life can involve both selflessness and sacrifice, while having children is often motivated by completely egotistical reasons. Not to mention those who turn to parenthood as Life's ultimate cop-out. "Well, I'm not going to be anything else, so I may as well be a mother. At least people can respect that." Yeah, awesome. Those people are going to raise very sane kids.

    I don't know why I never wanted to have kids. I guess my constant desire for adventure and freedom took up all of my imagination as a kid. Playing house bored the fuck out of me. I could not see boys as beings I wanted to associate in any romantic way in the future (in contrast with the precociousness of my friends). As a teenager they just seemed like aliens to me, not future partners. As a young adult, I was in a circle that generally disapproved of parenthood for very good reasons. And now, in my 30s, I realize my biological clock has never started ticking, and it's safe to say it never will. That motherhood is not a natural vocation of all women, and I'm an example of that. I have however become more appreciative of children as human beings, if that makes any sense. It's what you start thinking when you realize how full of shit, alienated and zombified many of your peers are. Going back to my mental age thread - people around me seem old, in the worst sense of the word.

    I know plenty of women who have always wanted to have kids. I like to think I can intuitively "get" people. But this, I could never get. It's a side of the human psyche that I could never penetrate, never understand. "She wants to grow another human inside her", "She wants put everything on hold for a few years to raise a person out of nothingness", "She wants to make a life-long pact with a man", "She doesn't care what happens to her body or the fact her partner will eventually lose interest and start again."

    Um. What? You, my sister, are completely fucking hopelessly and tragically CRAZY. I said it.

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    Tawaci ki a Gnaska ki Osito Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    or the fact her partner will eventually lose interest and start again.
    You're projecting your own psychological problems. There's no guarantee her partner will lose interest and start again. Plenty of couples make it through the long haul together.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osito Polar View Post
    You're projecting your own psychological problems. There's no guarantee her partner will lose interest and start again. Plenty of couples make it through the long haul together.
    I don't have psychological problems.

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    Member Mxx's Avatar
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    For me, there has always been a complete absence of any biological, physiological or psychological urge to have offspring, in addition to significant repulsion towards the idea when conceptualized, or when exposed to it through documentaries or movies. It has always been a no-brainer for me.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mxx View Post
    For me, there has always been a complete absence of any biological, physiological or psychological urge to have offspring, in addition to significant repulsion towards the idea when conceptualized, or when exposed to it through documentaries or movies. It has always been a no-brainer for me.
    My inability to even begin to understand this urge makes me doubt any woman who says she once wanted kids, but no longer does. It's as if just the fact she once had the capacity to harbor that desire... I can no longer believe any future denial on the matter. She has proven her insanity, and her word cannot be trusted.

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    I've always had a knee-jerk reaction against the idea of marriage and children, even before I lost my religion. I guess I can't see myself in that role. I've always had panicky reactions to the idea of being tied down to any one thing. If I'm not able to just up and disappear at a moment's notice, that's a big problem for me. I know a lot of guys go and have families anyway when they're like me, but I don't see them either sticking with that family or being happy with that family, and I know I'd be the same. I'd either be a miserable asshole, or I'd abandon my children. And then the little shits would go to art school and make some movie about how bad of a father I was and how much it screwed them up, and I'll never hear the end of it.

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    Sysop Ptah's Avatar
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    Quoting myself

    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah of INTPc
    Childfreedom

    (For whatever reason I recently stumbled into some articles and discussions online on the subject)

    There seem to be quite a few conclusions often leapt to about (when not by) people who choose to be "child free"; as in those who don't have children by choice.

    For instance, I simply feel no need and do not whatsoever desire to reproduce (that simple: I neither know nor care about other variables possibly involved with the matter beyond that). Morevoer, having children stands in salient contradiction to my rationally self-interested agenda (value-system) for living. Any of that aside, having children just seems like an overwhelmingly bad idea (qua risk). But it stems from and returns to my basic choice: I don't want any.

    Now, thankfully, Sekhmet feels similar if not the same, so our marriage isn't troubled by any such concerns. (Rather, I would argue: it is thereby enriched, but such is to digress)

    But wow do I find some weird-headednes in what others seem to make of the choice. There seems to be this notion, explicitly stated or otherwise, that there's something "wrong" or "amiss" in people who choose as such. As if there's some "damage" or misdevelopment that underlies such a choice. As if the only natural, happy, healthy disposition for human life is to want to have children, and so the only reason why you'd choose not to is due to some kind of malfunction and/or retreat, subconscious or otherwise? What the fuck.

    Oh, I certainly can imagine how people get all sorts of wrongheaded into making the (superficially) same choice I make, for entirely compensatory reasons (which indeed do stem from some sort of malfunction, damage, retreat, etc). But the existence if not prevalence of such people does not render the choice itself a necessarily unhealthy thing, in the sense of unequivocally bespeaking unhealth on the part of any or all who choose it independent/regardless of why.... starting with, for instance, me and my choice, which I attest is borne from no malfunction or retreat, but rather a recognition of the mutual incompatibility between a) fatherhood and b) the self-interested life I wish to live. As in: it is possible to simply neither want nor abide children for entirely healthy (if not common) reasons.

    And yet so many seem to conflate the whole thing into some indicator of unhealth or "wrongness" regardless. Nevermind those zealous natalists who proclaim that a choice not to reproduce is evil or irresponsible in some way!? Seriously: what the fuck, there.

    ....

    More broadly, this same basic sort of conflation seems to happen on lots of subjects. To be married or not. To be employed or to be self-employed. Any such lifestyle choice which can be contrasted by the other side/alternative, and be framed as a picture of "what the hell is wrong with you", trotting out all the wrongheaded bad-apples as anti-poster-childs, whilst ignoring the possibility that someone might just have a simple, rational, healthy reason for choosing what they do (or don't do).

    It doesn't help when, say, some "childfree" folks get up and start talking about how and why they made their choice, including all sorts of wrongheadedness which just feeds into the opposing camp's wrongheaded conclusions leapt-to.

    There's nothing worse for a good idea than a bad argument for it, basically.

  9. #9
    Tawaci ki a Gnaska ki Osito Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I don't have psychological problems.
    WHAT!?! Who said that you did?! You?
    "I don't have psychological problems." --Madrigal

    "When you write about shooting Polemarch in the head, that's more like a first-person view, like you're there looking down the sight of the gun." --Utisz

    David Wong, regarding Chicago
    Six centuries ago, the pre-Colombian natives who settled here named this region with a word which in their language means "the Mouth of Shadow". Later, the Iroquois who showed up and inexplicably slaughtered every man, woman and child renamed it "Seriously, Fuck that Place". When French explorer Jacques Marquette passed through the area he marked his map with a drawing of a brownish blob emerging from between the Devil's buttocks.

  10. #10
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    well, i guess i'll be honest. i never understood the urge to have children, either. i was just talking about this with my partner the other day. neither of us understand it, and the people we know who strongly desired to have kids seem to want/have them for really weird and pretty selfish reasons, like they've just given up on themselves, have no ambition and want somebody to live vicariously through and/or project their neuroses onto. i have a good example of this in my own family, but won't go into that.

    with that said, i understand that children happen. i can see children happening to me, and i can see myself eventually taking up the responsibility of raising children and learning to love them "as my own." but i can't see myself growing to want children.

    i can see my partner stepping up to the plate with me and being a really good father, honestly. he works with disabled kids, has a lot of kids in his family and is really great with them. i don't have that natural ability or instinct. so much for gender stereotypes, heh.

    i have one practical concern when it comes to never having children: who's going to take care of me when i get older? it's a part of my culture that the children take care of the parents when the parents are old. this isn't a very logical concern, maybe, as i can always plan for my security in other ways, and it's kinda ok to be that sad old lady doing the laundry all day living in her relatives' house who people gossip about and blame whenever anything in the house goes wrong. also in the US people don't give a shit about their parents a lot of the time, anyway.

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