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Thread: ENFP Empath --> INTJ Sociopath

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    ENFP Empath --> INTJ Sociopath

    Disclaimer: I wasn't sure if I should post this in MBTI or Psychology. It contains elements of both.

    I'm curious if this is possible ...

    A while back, I was reading a thread on another MBTI forum and they were typing characters from a popular science fiction series. (For the life of me, I can't remember which scifi show it was and therefore can't find the thread. )

    What was interesting was they mentioned how one of the characters was an ENFP as a child, but grew up to be an INTJ. Do you think such a transition in character would be possible? Looking at the letters, these two seem like opposites, but then again, I never did figure out and still don't understand all that Fe / Fi stuff. I don't know how (dis)similar these two really are.

    This also gets me to thinking about empaths and sociopaths and whether or not an empath could become a sociopath were he or she hurt enough. Example which springs to mind: Cat Woman. Wasn't she a nice lady who got taken advantage of, reached her breaking point and turned evil?

    The question is kinda theoretical and kinda serious. I have always had mischievous, evil thoughts which I don't act upon because I like being nice. I like fairness, but I also like fighting, especially for justice. I've been angry for a while now and I just don't know if there is a limit that once reached flips a switch and then I become Darth Vader or Hitler and want to squash the world.

    "
    'I cannot play with you,' the fox said. 'I am not tamed.'" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince (1943)

    REMINDER TO SELF WHEN DEALING WITH THE RABBIT WARRIOR: "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu,
    The Art of War

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    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    I think you're (understandably) conflating sociopath with socio-sadist/psychopath. It's understandable as both do terribly dickish things. The difference is that a sociopath lacks empathy, so their actions are simply selfish and destructive. They might be entertained watching people run around in anguish but they lack understanding of the harm they are causing. What you are describing is someone whose entertainment is from knowing very very much how much pain they are causing and why.

    Not that it matters that much if you're the one they're hurting.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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    New Member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Some believe Che Guevara was an ENFP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
    The question is kinda theoretical and kinda serious. I have always had mischievous, evil thoughts which I don't act upon because I like being nice. I like fairness, but I also like fighting, especially for justice. I've been angry for a while now and I just don't know if there is a limit that once reached flips a switch and then I become Darth Vader or Hitler and want to squash the world.
    Why not? As long as it is for a good cause...
    Last edited by msg_v2; 08-12-2014 at 02:21 AM.

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    ^ An argument for vigilantism.

    I just wonder if there's an amount of pain so intolerable the brain/heart/ego decides to just stop caring. That is one part of the definition of an sociopath/narcissist: They don't care that they hurt others in the same way recreational hunters don't care about hurting their prey. The people in the environment stop being human and just become game pieces. The only goal of the spath becomes winning and they blame their game pieces for being vulnerable.

    "
    'I cannot play with you,' the fox said. 'I am not tamed.'" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince (1943)

    REMINDER TO SELF WHEN DEALING WITH THE RABBIT WARRIOR: "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu,
    The Art of War

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
    ^ An argument for vigilantism.

    I just wonder if there's an amount of pain so intolerable the brain/heart/ego decides to just stop caring. That is one part of the definition of an sociopath/narcissist: They don't care that they hurt others in the same way recreational hunters don't care about hurting their prey. The people in the environment stop being human and just become game pieces. The only goal of the spath becomes winning and they blame their game pieces for being vulnerable.
    I don't really know if you want to get involved with a discussion about morality with me. I think it's a bad idea in your case. I recommend treading with caution here... unless this is just about your own guilt. Then I probably shouldn't get involved.
    Last edited by msg_v2; 08-12-2014 at 02:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasofy View Post
    Some believe Che Guevara was an ENFP.
    This sparked some research and I ran across this.

    "
    'I cannot play with you,' the fox said. 'I am not tamed.'" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince (1943)

    REMINDER TO SELF WHEN DEALING WITH THE RABBIT WARRIOR: "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu,
    The Art of War

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slab_Bulkhead View Post
    I don't really know if you want to get involved with a discussion about morality with me. I think it's a bad idea in your case. I recommend treading with caution here... unless this is just about your own guilt. Then I probably shouldn't get involved.
    I'm not interested in becoming your replacement target now that @lethe has asked you to stop bothering her. Please don't take it as interest when I visit your profile: I have to so that I can put you on the ignore list along with someone else who is already there.

    "
    'I cannot play with you,' the fox said. 'I am not tamed.'" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince (1943)

    REMINDER TO SELF WHEN DEALING WITH THE RABBIT WARRIOR: "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu,
    The Art of War

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
    I'm not interested in becoming your replacement target now that @lethe has asked you to stop bothering her. Please don't take it as interest when I visit your profile: I have to so that I can put you on the ignore list along with someone else who is already there.
    You've been sending me weird rep comments and visitor messages. Frankly, I didn't ask for your personal info or story, so I don't know why you PM'ed me about it. And no, I don't care if you PM'ed Limey to come to the forum. What the hell difference does it makes to me? What is up with that? To be honest, I kind of think you're targeting me.
    Last edited by msg_v2; 08-12-2014 at 05:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
    Disclaimer: I wasn't sure if I should post this in MBTI or Psychology. It contains elements of both.

    I'm curious if this is possible ...

    A while back, I was reading a thread on another MBTI forum and they were typing characters from a popular science fiction series. (For the life of me, I can't remember which scifi show it was and therefore can't find the thread. )

    What was interesting was they mentioned how one of the characters was an ENFP as a child, but grew up to be an INTJ.
    Do you think such a transition in character would be possible?
    The framework one (mis)uses can prejudice one's thoughts on the matter.
    Though Jung made known his belief that individuals transformed towards their original opposites over the course of their lives, even though 3 of 4 of the distinctions of the MBTI were/are Jungian those responsible for the MBTI did not incorporate this change-over-time feature of Jung.

    The enneagram also both assumes and allows-for personal growth and change.

    Thus, if one wants to contemplate the metamorphosis conjectured I'd recommend translating the starting MBTI type into it's most common enneagram types THEN follow directions of integration and disintegration to see how many steps it would take to land on one or more of the Enneagram types which correspond with the target MBTI type you've conjectured.

    The use of the MBTI tends to promote pigeon holing more than the use of either the enneagram or Jungian archetypes, IMO.

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