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Thread: Vulture Max

  1. #1
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Vulture Max

    Obama even worse than Bush? Oh yeah, take a peek. This report will make your jaw drop - over and over again.

    As you will see, Obama already let Paul Singer do the same to the US with your tax dollars in the GM-Chrysler case. After getting paid, Singer shut down 25 of the 29 autoparts plants he used in the extorsion.

    Chapter 11 lets US companies restructure their debt with the approval of 51% of creditors. Argentina has 93% of them on a bond swap deal, but that's not enough. It is so unbelievable how the tail can wag the dog to this extent in the US. In this case the tail is a handfull of voracious hedge fund creditors aided by an 84-year-old Nixon zombie judge. This isn't good for anybody but Singer. Nobody's going to use US arbitration courts for this kind of shit again. Also sets a negative precedent for the restructuring of debts the world over. And you know what? This went through a Manhattan district court, a court of appeals for the Second Circuit, and all the way up tor the United States Supreme Court. Then all the way back down to this senile old shitbag! The entire US judicial system has its head up its ass. But it's not even just the judicial system, because the President can do something about it, but won't.

    Real life supervillains, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  2. #2
    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    It's a depressing topic. Everybody has a price, it seems.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Ironically though this might actually hurt New York in the long run more. What sovereign government is going raise its debt in the States when it will know that restructuring is impossible and can be seized at will by the US government to pay the creditors? Hong Kong or London or Frankfurt might be more accommodating under such circumstances.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrus View Post
    Ironically though this might actually hurt New York in the long run more. What sovereign government is going raise its debt in the States when it will know that restructuring is impossible and can be seized at will by the US government to pay the creditors? Hong Kong or London or Frankfurt might be more accommodating under such circumstances.
    That's what I mean by the tail wagging the dog. A senile old man appointed by the guy who would be at the center of the greatest political scandal in the country's history is still sitting there 40 years later recklessly deciding on the fate of an entire country's economy. And nobody has the balls to do anything about it. That would never happen anywhere else. Shit like that can only happen there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  5. #5
    Member Phreon's Avatar
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    Exercising the separation of powers clause isn't as cut and dry as the video would have you believe. However, yes, the situation is absolutely disgusting.

    Maddy, horrible crap happens everywhere, not just the 'states. You only hear about the ones who get caught.

  6. #6
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Asinine.

  7. #7
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phreon View Post
    Exercising the separation of powers clause isn't as cut and dry as the video would have you believe. However, yes, the situation is absolutely disgusting.

    Maddy, horrible crap happens everywhere, not just the 'states. You only hear about the ones who get caught.
    I actually meant it quite literally. I don't think that there is another country in the world in which the core idiocy in the idea of the separation of powers is applied with such rigor, to the point of holding an entire country hostage - in this case, Argentina, but more often than not, the United States itself. In most countries in the world, the separation of powers is a convenient fiction, while the guys you actually elected (or didn't elect) exercise control of what gets done under normal circumstances. In other other words, in most any other place under the sun, the Griesas of the world get a single phone call and that's the end of it right there.

    And if you don't agree with what I'm saying, think of it this way: a presidential election is normally a hundred times more directly democratic than the appointment of judges or the election of Congress members. I much prefer the government du jour to be directly or indirectly making those calls than some crusty dinosaurs who've been around since the Great Depression.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  8. #8
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    That's what I mean by the tail wagging the dog. A senile old man appointed by the guy who would be at the center of the greatest political scandal in the country's history is still sitting there 40 years later recklessly deciding on the fate of an entire country's economy. And nobody has the balls to do anything about it. That would never happen anywhere else. Shit like that can only happen there.
    It reflects the fact thought that the US isn't really a single point of power. It acted like it was and pretty much was during the cold war, because... it could under the paranoia of the era the whole issue of states rights and separation of powers took second place to the 'state of emergency'. The more separatist elements of the US psyche have come back now that that threat is gone. This kind of event isn't so uncommon in other confederations or pseudo-states - look at Switzerland or the European Union or even the Soviet Union when the central government lost control of the individual states by 1989. Many third-world countries and even rich former colonies like Australia have pretend federalism, but it usually was the result of the joining together of places which never really had much independent identity to begin with. The US states did. In such a circumstance it is possible to have separation of power having real effects like this because Griesa has implicit support from some power centres in the US (the Tea Party is a fan I believe - his actions kind of chime with their whole fiscal rectitude plug) that would cry foul if any move was made against him.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

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    Member Bartender's Avatar
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    The American government is corrupt in every sense of the word. It is only such a major issue because we are powerful and corrupt. Most if not all politicians are bought and paid for in the US.

  10. #10
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    And then this happened:

    Argentina will use anti-terrorism law against a U.S. printing firm

    The funny thing is, this whole thing has helped her public image immensely, which is a really unusual thing for a president who's about to leave office after two terms in power (three if you count her husband's first term). The rhetoric is starting to border on anti-Americanism. I read recently that the Pew Research Center has consistently shown Argentina to be the most anti-American country in Latin America (I assume after Cuba).

    Quote Originally Posted by ferrus View Post
    It reflects the fact thought that the US isn't really a single point of power. It acted like it was and pretty much was during the cold war, because... it could under the paranoia of the era the whole issue of states rights and separation of powers took second place to the 'state of emergency'. The more separatist elements of the US psyche have come back now that that threat is gone. This kind of event isn't so uncommon in other confederations or pseudo-states - look at Switzerland or the European Union or even the Soviet Union when the central government lost control of the individual states by 1989. Many third-world countries and even rich former colonies like Australia have pretend federalism, but it usually was the result of the joining together of places which never really had much independent identity to begin with. The US states did. In such a circumstance it is possible to have separation of power having real effects like this because Griesa has implicit support from some power centres in the US (the Tea Party is a fan I believe - his actions kind of chime with their whole fiscal rectitude plug) that would cry foul if any move was made against him.
    Good points. I think the hardcore federalism of the United States is probably one of its most backwards aspects on a political level. Just seeing how painfully slow it is to generalize progressive legislation like gay marriage is something that more unitarian countries like mine have a really difficult time comprehending. Common sense would suggest that the most advanced sectors of an establishment would dictate over the most retrograde. Yet this does not seem to be the case in the United States, where entrenched sectors can actually hold society back from progress on a national level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

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