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Thread: Healthcare and Social Policy Debate (Split from What is feminism to you?)

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    Member Bartender's Avatar
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    Healthcare and Social Policy Debate (Split from What is feminism to you?)

    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    yep, cuz public health is everybody's responsibility. we're all paying for it with our taxes.

    there are ways this can be improved for women who aren't able to go through certain lengths to get their bc.
    I disagree. I do not think public health is everyone's responsibility. I think people are responsible for themselves. The only people someone should be responsible for is children or if they are designated guardian of another person. I think mutual health systems and social welfare of all kinds simply steal from those willing to work and those who live a healthy safe lifestyle.

    I don't want to get the bill for dangerous lifestyles lived by others. I shouldn't have to pay to give someone cancer treatment who smoked 3 packs a day. I shouldn't have to pay for that triple bypass on a 400 pound man. People need to be responsible for themselves. If you want health insurance you buy health insurance. If you don't want health insurance you don't buy it. Employers can offer health insurance to employees but they shouldn't have to. They should have a choice increase our cost per person and reduce turnover or increase turn over and decrease cost. The employees should not rely on the employer to take carry of every need and want they have. They choose to work there, they choose to accept the conditions. If you don't like it work somewhere else.
    Last edited by stigmatica; 08-20-2014 at 03:29 PM.

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    Healthcare and Social Policy Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    people often use birth control as pain medication actually.

    ime using the federally funded clinics, there are still hoops to jump through and not everybody can access those services based on their parents insurance plan or whatever. there are so many young people, not just women, waiting at these places to get tested or for certain medications that carry a stigma that really shouldn't be there. affordability is a huge issue but it definitely isn't just money for all these people. you're seeing people assumedly from all walks of life... dangerous lifestyle indeed.
    Long lines exist because it is people waiting for state sponsored handouts. There is never a lack of people milking the system for everything its worth.

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    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
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    good luck @Bartender

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    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    The primary reason employers offer what they offer is because they've been forced to. If they had the option of enslavement, they would. The reason they don't isn't because there are other options, but because that option is removed from the table. But most employers get away with nigh slavery as often as they can, until something comes along that stops them. To say "just go work somewhere else" is to say "let them eat cake".

    Health insurance shouldn't be privatized. There's nothing noble about the private sector, just as there's nothing noble about the public sector. But privatized health insurance has demonstrated itself to be a public bad, where as nationalized health insurance has shown itself to be a public good.

    If you don't think you should pay a part of someone else's medical bills, you don't understand how insurance works in the first place--and I hope you have the decency to stay off public roads and sidewalks. Same principle involved in their creation.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    The primary reason employers offer what they offer is because they've been forced to. If they had the option of enslavement, they would. The reason they don't isn't because there are other options, but because that option is removed from the table. But most employers get away with nigh slavery as often as they can, until something comes along that stops them. To say "just go work somewhere else" is to say "let them eat cake".
    I'm always pleasantly surprised when businesses don't do this. The Seattle cheap-ass burger chain Dick's includes dental in their insurance, and has a scholarship program to contribute to childcare and tuition assistance. It's hardly an anti-capitalist company, but they recognize value of investing in their workers.

    I would hate to live in the kind of self-serving society Bartender describes.

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    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    ^^^Me too. For both the opening and closing observations.

    Not that I've anything against self-serving--but at a comprehensive societal level, you no longer have a society. You don't even have a decent anarchy. You just have a sausage grinder.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartender View Post
    Long lines exist because it is people waiting for state sponsored handouts.
    There is never a lack of people milking the system for everything its worth.
    Wait ... wait.
    I think someone rhapsodized about this:


    BTW, In England they call it standing in/on queue and it's seen as a means of rendering everyone EQUAL ... especially if no one gets to cut ahead.
    This feeble attempt to out-agent_provocateur ME will NOT STAND!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    The primary reason employers offer what they offer is because they've been forced to. If they had the option of enslavement, they would. The reason they don't isn't because there are other options, but because that option is removed from the table. But most employers get away with nigh slavery as often as they can, until something comes along that stops them. To say "just go work somewhere else" is to say "let them eat cake".

    Health insurance shouldn't be privatized. There's nothing noble about the private sector, just as there's nothing noble about the public sector. But privatized health insurance has demonstrated itself to be a public bad, where as nationalized health insurance has shown itself to be a public good.

    If you don't think you should pay a part of someone else's medical bills, you don't understand how insurance works in the first place--and I hope you have the decency to stay off public roads and sidewalks. Same principle involved in their creation.
    Its true they are forced to. They are forced by labor availability if they offered a dollar an hour they would not be able to get any decent employees let alone get them to stay. That is why employers offered health insurance before it was mandatory. Why they offer benefits they don't need to offer and why they pay people more than min wage. Anyone with a decent skill is a valuable commodity and is going to be wanted by multiple companies thus they need to pay anyone with a skill as much or more than a competitor to keep them. Only when 1 choice exists can the employer pay what ever they want with no side effects.

    I pay taxes to use public roads. I am forced to pay insurance for medical services I don't use? What sense is this? Thats like me paying Verizon for cable when I don't have or want to watch a TV. If I think it will save me money not to have insurance and only go to the doctor for emergencies I should be allowed to make that decision instead of being taxed for not throwing money away to a insurance company.

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    There are many many employers who only pay minimum wage. If they could, they would pay less. They don't have a shortage of workers. There are also many workers with skills who can't find skilled employment at any price.

    Wages aren't the only place that I think employers make unreasonable demands and have unreasonable expectations. Nor are they the only place that it has taken legislation and political actions to change their expectations. They used to be even more inclined to nigh enslavement.

    If you're alive, you're using health insurance. That's how insurance works once it's in place. It's in place. You're using it right now. It isn't only used when you are sick or injured. It's also in use before that, to defray the costs for everyone. The only way it defrays the cost is if there are enough healthy people paying in to cover the costs of the injured and ill making claims. We all take our turn, one way or another.

    I don't mind if people opt out of health insurance so long as they also opt out of all medical services under all circumstances for life. You'll never pay a dime, and you'll never receive medical aid. You should be denied all EMT care in emergencies as well. I don't mind if you don't think you're using health insurance so long as you're willing to bleed to death on the side of road while the rest of us watch.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    There are many many employers who only pay minimum wage. If they could, they would pay less. They don't have a shortage of workers. There are also many workers with skills who can't find skilled employment at any price.

    Wages aren't the only place that I think employers make unreasonable demands and have unreasonable expectations.

    If you're alive, you're using health insurance. That's how insurance works once it's in place. It's in place. You're using it right now. It isn't only used when you are sick or injured. It's also in use before that, to defray the costs for everyone. The only way it defrays the cost is if there are enough healthy people paying in to cover the costs of the injured and ill making claims. We all take our turn, one way or another.

    I don't mind if people opt out of health insurance so long as they also opt out of all medical services under all circumstances for life. You'll never pay a dime, and you'll never receive medical aid. You should be denied all EMT care in emergencies as well. I don't mind if you don't think you're using health insurance so long as you're willing to bleed to death on the side of road while the rest of us watch.
    They don't have any valuable skills. Really in the whole world nowhere exists in which they can get a job? That hardly seems true.

    That is not how health insurance works. In a typical system like say canada yes. In the US not at all we only have it when we pay for it. The old and sick only have it when they pay for it, the government has intervened to make it so they cannot simply drop those who use to much and now they must compensate.

    We pay taxes for EMT care and in some areas you must pay for each usage. If I need medical assistance I pay for it out of pocket just like it was done all of human history until this point. I won't have a company reimburse me but I can also save hundreds a month instead of giving it to them. I would rather choose how to use my money and how to save than to give it to a company as a safety net. When I can be my own safety net. If people don't want to do that they can get insurance. But I will not pay for insurance just so the company can make money off of me they need to dish out for others. I believe in both personal and economic freedom socialized healthcare is the opposite of economic freedom. Being forced to be a customer to make things cheaper for others is just wealth distribution nothing more or less and I think it is wrong.

    I personally wouldn't watch another person bleed to death on the side of the road. I keep a medbag in my car and am trained to use it to save someones life. But thats just me.

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