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Thread: Envy - Split from Little pockets of hot air

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    Envy - Split from Little pockets of hot air

    Has anyone ever had a moment where they were envious of someone, and then you feel bad because you realize that they don't have it as good as you thought they did? Or that the sensitivity or what not really isn't that different from your own?

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slab_Bulkhead View Post
    Has anyone ever had a moment where they were envious of someone, and then you feel bad because you realize that they don't have it as good as you thought they did? Or that the sensitivity or what not really isn't that different from your own?
    No, because I never feel envy.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    No, because I never feel envy.
    Gosh. I desperately desire your demeanor for myself, he deadpanned.


    Actually, I think I do. On reflection, I neither covet nor envy and I ignore jealousy as trivial but destructive. I think it stems from trying to accept people as they are--and being patently offended when people think they have a "right" to other people's things.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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    dormant jigglypuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    No, because I never feel envy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Gosh. I desperately desire your demeanor for myself, he deadpanned.


    Actually, I think I do. On reflection, I neither covet nor envy and I ignore jealousy as trivial but destructive. I think it stems from trying to accept people as they are--and being patently offended when people think they have a "right" to other people's things.
    i'm still figuring out my relationship with envy. when i was younger, it was never a problem cuz i could focus on myself in an almost obsessive one-track-mind kind of way, but now there's this shitty pressure and competitiveness as i'm getting older, esp when it comes to professional success. i catch myself going back and forth between "focus on yourself" and this weird, greedy shit you do in secret when you're trying to be strategic about getting things that you want. it's really awful, and i want to not be like that, cuz it's toxic thinking. i'm not very much like that, but when i'm feeling miserable (it happens) i can often pinpoint greed and insecurity as the reason.

    ("not gonna lie"-- life motto)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Gosh. I desperately desire your demeanor for myself, he deadpanned.


    Actually, I think I do. On reflection, I neither covet nor envy and I ignore jealousy as trivial but destructive. I think it stems from trying to accept people as they are--and being patently offended when people think they have a "right" to other people's things.
    Oh, I'm not proud of it... but it's hard to recognize when one is caught up in it. Most often, I'm envious of people who I see are charmers or people who I perceive maintain non-familial social relationships a lot easier, even if in other respects they have a much harder time of things than I do . If I find myself desiring material things, it's often because I wonder if I would get, say, a higher social status besides it, but I can calm myself down with that because, even if it did "help" me in that respect (which I doubt), it would be inauthentic.

    LOL about fundamentalists who describe the 10 commandments as the basis of our society even though our economy is based on coveting, at Christmas most of all. (Credit to George Carlin given.)

    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    i'm still figuring out my relationship with envy. when i was younger, it was never a problem cuz i could focus on myself in an almost obsessive one-track-mind kind of way, but now there's this shitty pressure and competitiveness as i'm getting older, esp when it comes to professional success. i catch myself going back and forth between "focus on yourself" and this weird, greedy shit you do in secret when you're trying to be strategic about getting things that you want. it's really awful, and i want to not be like that, cuz it's toxic thinking. i'm not very much like that, but when i'm feeling miserable (it happens) i can often pinpoint greed and insecurity as the reason.

    ("not gonna lie"-- life motto)
    Well, a few people who know me well describe me as "underemployed", and the thought of being "underemployed" bothers me. But I'm also bothered by what it says about the other people who have my job.... am I really "worth" more than they are? (I like a lot of the folks in my department, .... usually it's other departments that annoy me.) I live comfortably enough, and could probably afford a car of some type, so why should that matter that I'm "underemployed"... but it bothers me nonetheless.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Gosh. I desperately desire your demeanor for myself, he deadpanned.


    Actually, I think I do. On reflection, I neither covet nor envy and I ignore jealousy as trivial but destructive. I think it stems from trying to accept people as they are--and being patently offended when people think they have a "right" to other people's things.
    Huh. The thing with envy is that I don't feel unfortunate in the presence of other people's fortune. I could be impressed or fascinated by things I don't have but the necessary link to the thought, "I deserve this as much or more" just doesn't happen. It often has to be pointed out to me when someone is envious or trying to make me envious. Those things sort of fly over my head. Jealousy involves other factors that I think are immaterial, so I don't think I'd compare the two.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    ^Same with regard to envy. But I think of it as a similar emotion to jealousy. Both are destructive wants that lead to needless and wrong harms.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    ^Same with regard to envy. But I think of it as a similar emotion to jealousy. Both are destructive wants that lead to needless and wrong harms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal
    Huh. The thing with envy is that I don't feel unfortunate in the presence of other people's fortune. I could be impressed or fascinated by things I don't have but the necessary link to the thought, "I deserve this as much or more" just doesn't happen. It often has to be pointed out to me when someone is envious or trying to make me envious. Those things sort of fly over my head.
    Did you guys always feel that way?

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slab_Bulkhead View Post
    Did you guys always feel that way?
    I can remember, when I was much much younger, sometimes wishing a friend would give me one of their toys. But other than that, yeah, I've pretty much always been this way--or at least, inasmuch as I can remember. I think in my case, it was partly spawned from early repugnance at forced sharing. I wanted my property respected as mine, and I wanted to be fair. Consequently, envy represents a double standard, and it's full ugliness is revealed.

    I want to make clear that I'm not saying I've never seen someone's good fortune and not wanted something similar for myself. Just that I never begrudged anyone what was theirs, or thought that what was theirs should be mine. That seems silly to me. What I wanted was to earn my own--if possible--and accept that what wasn't possible wasn't possible.

    I don't think you can really accept other people for who and what they are if you envy them--and while I don't accept everyone for who and what they are, I want to be able to accept those people who are important to me. A heart that can envy has no place in that ideal.

    I think the better way to look at it is to be inspired, or simply to count other people's blessings for them. Take happiness in other people's skill: it's awesome they exist. That sort of thing.

    If you've ever looked at birds and longed to fly, did you imagine ripping their wings off and taking them for your own? That's what envy seems like to me.

    As consequence, whenever someone says they envy me (and strangely, people have said this), I tend to consider it a barely veiled threat. Not necessarily malicious, but more like someone is running around full tilt with a sharp knife.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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    dormant jigglypuff's Avatar
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    this is gonna sound bad, but i kinda don't trust people who say they never feel envious or jealous. certainly i've managed to convince myself before that i'm above those emotions, but emotions like that rarely just sorta sit there. they tend to manifest in actions, and unless you make a point of thinking about your own motivations once in a while, you're gonna miss it. deep down, i don't feel everybody deserves the good things that they get, and that applies to myself. i do get annoyed when people complain about stuff that i think i'd never complain about if only i could experience them for once. the thing is, i tend to catch those toxic thoughts and i think it's really bad to not confront them. feeling/thinking is fine, but don't do shitty things. i can't lie to myself about those things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    If you've ever looked at birds and longed to fly, did you imagine ripping their wings off and taking them for your own? That's what envy seems like to me.
    the reason this doesn't work for me is because a bird's flight is beautiful. envy doesn't happen when you see something beautiful or impressive.

    envy to me is a sort of energy that will only hurt you and other people unless you transform it into something actually positive and motivational. if you don't confront it, you'll just go on doing shitty things.
    Last edited by jigglypuff; 09-08-2014 at 04:39 AM.

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