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Thread: News Articles that don't deserve their own thread

  1. #1861
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Unfortunately, our federal laws probably won't change much when the agency tasked with enforcing them is more focused on trying to undermine the president.
    Oh lord, people are actually buying that used car salesman talk that the Pres and Fox News are pushing? LOL

    How much time do you think the Miami FBI field office is spending on the Mueller investigation?

    The FBI did drop the ball, but there is no evidence as to why. I don't know how many tips they have daily, or what their personnel numbers are, but it would be jumping to conclusions to make the assumptions you are.

    I am curious about what the FBI could do if they had interviewed him. Maybe the attention would be enough to dissuade him. Can the FBI put you on a list forbidding you from buying a gun, even if your legal record doesn't? Can they mandate that you get mental health treatment?
    Last edited by oxyjen; Yesterday at 07:23 PM.

  2. #1862
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    What mass shootings? A gander at wikipedia reveals the last described 4 as such:

    2015 - Mexican federal police kills 42 suspected gangsters in a shootout

    2015 - 16 unarmed civilians killed by federal police outside Apatzingán city hall.

    2014 - "43 male students [...] official investigation concluded that once 43 of the students were forcibly taken into custody, they were handed over to the local Guerreros Unidos ("United Warriors") crime syndicate and presumably killed."

    2014 - 22 civilians executed by government troops

    That's a whole different color.

    Mexico has a violent crime problem (not unlike the U.S., though the symptoms for these are born out of, presumably, microcultures of poverty, whereas Mexico is a Narco state. Even Canada is experiencing the odd shootout now with North African and Middle-Eastern gangs) , not a "disturbed mass shooter" problem. The public cares far less about the overall homicide rate than they do mass civilian killings, particularly involving children. Those involved in most firearm homicides are shrugged aside as mere gangbangers, owing to right-wing ideology or apathy in the face of there being no political will to tackle poverty. Would-be mass shooters don't seem like particularly resourceful cowards -- without an easily accessible firearm, I wouldn't foresee them making attempts with melee weapons or fashioned explosives, as evidenced by the fact that it just doesn't seem to happen (there was, what, one dude in China?), terrorism notwithstanding.
    Yeah, the point is that gun laws aren't sufficient to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. It's funny how people always want to compare places like Canada or Australia to the US to make the point that gun laws work, but then when you bring up places like Mexico or Brazil or Honduras or South Africa, they get all "but that's not exactly the same".

    And nobody has a "disturbed mass shooter" problem. It happens so rarely you're more likely to win millions in the lottery than to ever be affected. What we have is a "sensationalized mass shooting" problem. The media frenzy over this one particular type of incident and the public eat it up because we have a culture that glorifies violence and no organized bloodsport like the Romans had. What's a disaffected loner who sees no future for himself to do? In this country I could be famous overnight, I just need to go kill a bunch of white kids in a well-off suburb.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Oh lord, people are actually buying that used car salesman talk that the Pres and Fox News are pushing? LOL

    How much time do you think the Miami FBI field office is spending on the Mueller investigation?

    The FBI did drop the ball, but there is no evidence as to why. I don't know how many tips they have daily, or what their personnel numbers are, but it would be jumping to conclusions to make the assumptions you are.

    I am curious about what the FBI could do if they had interviewed him. Maybe the attention would be enough to dissuade him. Can the FBI put you on a list forbidding you from buying a gun, even if your legal record doesn't? Can they mandate that you get mental health treatment?
    I'm pretty sure that publicly declaring your plans to "be a professional school shooter" would count as terroristic threats. They have arrested other kids for the same type of thing.

  3. #1863
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim
    Yeah, the point is that gun laws aren't sufficient to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
    Then I'm not seeing the relevance of your point. But more accurately gun laws aren't sufficient to curb criminal behavior. Take the UK, a favorite cited by the right for its violent crime rate but firearm homicide can't be up to par.

    And nobody has a "disturbed mass shooter" problem.
    If any 1st world country does it's the U.S.

    It happens so rarely you're more likely to win millions in the lottery than to ever be affected.
    What, you're going to downplay their significance? You're more likely to die in a car accident as well, but the concern about mass shootings has almost nothing to do with one's own likelihood of being one of the unlucky involved in it. Red herrings abound.

    To put it another way, the public seems willing to tolerate gun violence, but unwilling to tolerate mass shootings. Ease of accessibility for your average young male appears to be the major distinguishing factor.
    Last edited by Faust; Yesterday at 09:04 PM.
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  4. #1864
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    If any 1st world country does it's the U.S.
    Like I said, nobody does.
    What, you're going to downplay their significance? You're more likely to die in a car accident as well, but the concern about mass shootings has almost nothing to do with one's own likelihood of being one of the unlucky involved in it. Red herrings abound.

    To put it another way, the public seems willing to tolerate gun violence, but unwilling to tolerate mass shootings. Ease of accessibility for your average young male appears to be the major distinguishing factor.
    Of course "the public" is willing to tolerate mass shootings. If they weren't, they would do something about them - even if that was just pretending that they don't exist (which would be very effective in reducing their frequency). The public loves the sensation, it loves the hate, it loves the violence. The public is two-faced and bloodthirsty. The public is full of individuals who see no future for themselves and hate everyone and wish they had the guts to go out in a blaze of glory.

  5. #1865
    Senior Member jyng1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Of course "the public" is willing to tolerate mass shootings.
    Of course they are...


  6. #1866
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post

    I'm pretty sure that publicly declaring your plans to "be a professional school shooter" would count as terroristic threats. They have arrested other kids for the same type of thing.
    I don't think that a general type of threat like that left on a YouTube channel is enough to get a person arrested, do you have info on similar cases?

    Law enforcement had been to the guy's residence thirty-some times. I would hope that they would have put him away for something if they were able.

  7. #1867
    Ran Out of Crackerz Catoptric's Avatar
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    A 13 year old boy is able to walk into a gun shop/show and have a rifle sold to him, and recently I saw a video of a girl getting her a brand new Beretta rifle for her birthday (though I'm sure she wouldn't have had nefarious intent and probably would have had semi-responsible parents,) however the whole idea that anyone could just as well buy/obtain a gun and not require any background checks is somewhat disturbing (though such a thing as a background check doesn't catch "outliers," or any "down on their luck," or revenge seeking violence, which are probably what most of these background checks are usually addressed as helping to prevent, but nevertheless easily supply an opportunity to enact such behavior.) It's also a situation where a messed up culture could encourage foolish acts such as mass killings, by actively supporting insular ego-embellishment and training to be violent. The end result is a society that turns a blind eye to "differences" and not trying to intervene in problem situations (for example, in this video, why didn't the kid get asked more questions about why he wanted to buy these things instead of saying, "no, you aren't old enough." It's almost as if they could care less what someone was doing, as it was outside of their purview of responsibilities as a retailer.) Within some context anyone could just as well retreat into their own framework of identity and as a society it is becoming perhaps more myopic in part because we view "tolerance" as "accepting" of things which might actually hinder a society from developing awareness of the problems faced. It seems as though a society that encourages people to use ego as an extensions of identity to prop themselves up within society, are perhaps more likely to latch onto delusion manifestations of self-identity (perhaps something that the Philosopher David Hume would say?) And the bigger issue is the defense mechanisms that prevent people from ever escaping such a trajectory of self-awareness and coping within a culture that is actually encouraging such predation by it's shear will of antipathy to anything other than the collective mass-delusion called "tolerance." More harm than good may well come from trying to also change things because people in large part always seem to have the idea that their own representation of identity is better than another, which only embellishes the reliance on something like an atom bomb to prove a point.

    On another note I was wondering how TABC would claim that as long as a person is 21 years of age, they are not committing a crime by purchasing alcohol, and thus a retailer should not be criminally liable for the sale of alcohol if the person seems to show evidence of being an adult; or in a situation where a foreign passport is used to buy alcohol. I've heard reports of a situation in which a driver's license is expired for example, and a person whom sold that alcohol can get arrested and placed in jail for long durations, even when that person sold the alcohol to someone whom was old enough? The sale of alcohol cannot be prohibited to someone other than below 21 to my knowledge, and perhaps it's more about a retailer loosing their alcohol permit due to not following their part of the law (which assumes that a valid identification for someone relies entirely upon a photo representing what they look like, which doesn't really change any differently if you could not reliably interpret even a valid contemporary I.D.; that the only purpose of not using an expired license is due to it being potentially tampered with if it was expired (and found in the trash for example, which is probably what that is all about.) That retailers enforce such restrictions because they realize the penalties are harsher for them to sell to a minor.

  8. #1868
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    I don't think that a general type of threat like that left on a YouTube channel is enough to get a person arrested, do you have info on similar cases?

    Law enforcement had been to the guy's residence thirty-some times. I would hope that they would have put him away for something if they were able.
    You might be right. I'm not gonna read all the details about his life and past. It's just not that interesting to me. 100 people kill themselves every day in this country. It's not all worth my attention, or yours. And frankly, the more attention we give these things the more they happen. This has been studied and proven. I have tried to avoid the media attention to this and I can't. I've seen the guy's face dozens of times now and I know his name thanks to the media, and thanks to the people who eat up this kind of media ravenously.

    Stuff like this happens. It's incredibly rare. We should focus our attention on the stuff that is incredibly common but gets very little media attention.

  9. #1869
    just dont think about it mhc's Avatar
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    KDE is announcing today it has received a donation of 200,000 from the Pineapple fund

    Just look at the blue sky

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