View Poll Results: DemocracyOS

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  • I would like to see this tool adopted

    2 50.00%
  • I don't think this tool is a good idea

    0 0%
  • I think it's a realistic proposal

    1 25.00%
  • I don't think it's realistic

    3 75.00%
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Thread: Democracy OS

  1. #1
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Democracy OS

    How to Upgrade Democracy for the Internet Era (short TED)

    So, this political scientist and her friends sat around thinking of how to make modern democracy more direct - apparently arguing that democracy as we know it depends on elected representatives deciding everything because large constituencies have made no other method viable. Until now. In her view, the internet has made it possible to radically change this, so her group created an app called DemocracyOS that enables users to vote in favor, against or abstain on all Congress bills. They even proposed this app to established politicians (I'll let you see what they replied in the video - or perhaps you can guess it).

    What do you think of this idea?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  2. #2
    BeyondUrLatestAdCampaigns ciphersort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    What do you think of this idea?
    Yeah - in theory... in a perfect world. Unfortunately this world is full of dumb asses and while I'm not filled with joy that a bunch of crooks are in charge I'm also not certain we're ready for instant and direct democracy. I'd rather see our rights as humans expanded and solidified first... then maybe.

  3. #3
    Ieilaelite pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Sounds great, just hold on a sec while I fire up my botnet...

    e: remember, this is a world where moot was voted Time's most influential person of the year.

  4. #4
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    I want to see a separation of money and state. This tool would take away the power of lobbyists, and would make people more interested in politics. Both good things. But I think this is throwing away the child with the bath water.

    Personally I think the next big change to democracy is going to happen when the sea level rises 100 feet and the world stops being "business as usual". The last major era of political courage we've known was right after world war 2, when the line between the rich and powerful and the poor and underprivileged was suddently very narrow. We really need a crisis that affects everybodies lives in a real way before we collectively take politics seriously.

    What happens after that is anybodies guess. It might be a new constitution, drafted by the people (like what *almost* happened in Iceland), or a democracy app through the internet. I don't know, but I believe it will happen during my lifetime.

  5. #5
    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

  6. #6
    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    Problems:

    1. People don't have enough time to inform themselves on issues. It may be the case that politicians don't inform themselves either, but if it's someone's full time job i feel like they'll generally have a better handle on things.

    2. somebody already mentioned bots... but i think this problem can be worked around. If you give out a random 5000 digit number to each unique american every 10 years or so, the number of false votes will probably be small.

    3. Tyranny of idiots? Related to point 1., we're taking the power away from the corrupt and putting it in the hands of idiots.
    It's one thing to have a particular set of values, it's another to decide what potential solutions we should use to solve particular problems. The point of allowing everyone to vote would be to have access to the true values of the society... but it also leaves you vulnerable to the fallacious solutions from people who can't think. If you elect a politician, at least he has to demonstrate a certain amount of cunning which implies some degree of clear thinking.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

  7. #7
    Member Bartender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    Problems:

    1. People don't have enough time to inform themselves on issues. It may be the case that politicians don't inform themselves either, but if it's someone's full time job i feel like they'll generally have a better handle on things.

    2. somebody already mentioned bots... but i think this problem can be worked around. If you give out a random 5000 digit number to each unique american every 10 years or so, the number of false votes will probably be small.

    3. Tyranny of idiots? Related to point 1., we're taking the power away from the corrupt and putting it in the hands of idiots.
    It's one thing to have a particular set of values, it's another to decide what potential solutions we should use to solve particular problems. The point of allowing everyone to vote would be to have access to the true values of the society... but it also leaves you vulnerable to the fallacious solutions from people who can't think. If you elect a politician, at least he has to demonstrate a certain amount of cunning which implies some degree of clear thinking.
    Our current lawmakes don't even read most of the bills put in front of them aka obamacare the safe act.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    Problems:

    1. People don't have enough time to inform themselves on issues. It may be the case that politicians don't inform themselves either, but if it's someone's full time job i feel like they'll generally have a better handle on things.
    Most politicians are a lot better informed than they let on to the public. They just treat the public with contempt and often limit themself to soundbytes and slogans. When they're talking behind the scenes to the wealthy people who really elect them they speak another language.

    2. somebody already mentioned bots... but i think this problem can be worked around. If you give out a random 5000 digit number to each unique american every 10 years or so, the number of false votes will probably be small.
    Yes, I agree. I don't think this is at all insurmountable. What is potentially more worrisome is that the NSA will have the entire world's voting history on record.

    3. Tyranny of idiots? Related to point 1., we're taking the power away from the corrupt and putting it in the hands of idiots.
    It's one thing to have a particular set of values, it's another to decide what potential solutions we should use to solve particular problems. The point of allowing everyone to vote would be to have access to the true values of the society... but it also leaves you vulnerable to the fallacious solutions from people who can't think. If you elect a politician, at least he has to demonstrate a certain amount of cunning which implies some degree of clear thinking.
    Except for governor Sarah Palin.

  9. #9
    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartender View Post
    Our current lawmakes don't even read most of the bills put in front of them aka obamacare the safe act.
    I don't know. I'm genuinely ignorant of how that whole system operates. I don't believe anything politicians say... Including the notion that nobody read the bill or that they didn't know what was in there (regardless of reading it). Sometimes the "politicians are idiots" explanation seems to fit, other times not so much.

    I'm kind of on the fence as to what would be the lesser of two evils here. It may be that the corrupt system is more stable... anyway, a true democracy is worth giving a shot. Maybe we can implement it on a state level in a few places as an experiment.


    Edit: Although government is probably less corrupt on the state level as it is.

    Edit2: The NSA thing isn't a problem per se. There's no reason anybody has to know which number corresponds to which citizen. Of course, that implies that the system is designed in good faith.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

  10. #10
    Member Bartender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    I don't know. I'm genuinely ignorant of how that whole system operates. I don't believe anything politicians say... Including the notion that nobody read the bill or that they didn't know what was in there (regardless of reading it). Sometimes the "politicians are idiots" explanation seems to fit, other times not so much.

    I'm kind of on the fence as to what would be the lesser of two evils here. It may be that the corrupt system is more stable... anyway, a true democracy is worth giving a shot. Maybe we can implement it on a state level in a few places as an experiment.


    Edit: Although government is probably less corrupt on the state level as it is.

    Edit2: The NSA thing isn't a problem per se. There's no reason anybody has to know which number corresponds to which citizen. Of course, that implies that the system is designed in good faith.
    Oh no it's not that they are idiots its simply impossible in many cases. Take the safe act that got passed in the middle of the night and they had like an hour to read and discuss it before it went to vote. Its not short by any means.

    They don't need to be so excessively long that a normal person does not have time to read.

    I always dreamed of a internet system like this as a kid. A throw back to ancient greek direct democracy done via the internet would be wonderful in my eyes. I would imagine something would need restrictions to stop a tyranny of the majority stripping people of rights but that could be done.

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