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Thread: Little questions that don't deserve their own thread

  1. #2091
    Senior Member Guess Who's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    No! That's my whole fucking point! Just because an ideology has an element of collectivism in it doesn't make it Marxism in disguise! For someone who claims such confidence in their beliefs, it's surprising how much effort you put into worming your way out of past positions.
    I was only trying to suggest that various modern ideologies are Marxism in disguise. It is the ideologies that are Marxism in disguise, not the people who subscribe to them. I was not trying to suggest that every person who promotes an ideology that is Marxism in disguise is actually a member of a secret Marxist organization trying to subtlety win people over to Marxism. That would just be weird.

    I was not trying to worm my way out of the position that Naomi Klein is a secret Marxist agitator. That was never my position. I was simply clarifying my actual position. If you got the impression that I was saying that Naomi Klein was a secret Marxist agitator, then I failed to communicate my position clearly enough.

    Maybe saying that ideologies are Marxism in disguise is not the best way to express what I believe. Perhaps saying that they all promote collective thinking and increased government control and lead towards world government, just like Marxism, might be more accurate. These are the aspects of Marxism that I had in mind when when comparing various ideologies to Marxism. Maybe I should have referred to cultural Marxism and the Frankfurt school to clarify my position.

    The "problems" are different but the solutions and end result are always the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    The word "fascism" comes from a word that means something like "a bundle." It sprung in part from a worker's syndicate movement. According to your previously-stated logic, I suppose Mussolini was a Communist in disguise, lol.
    It is very interesting that you say that. Nazism is generally considered a right wing ideology yet the party name contains the word socialist.

    I was just reading about the film Metropolis and came across the following quote by Joseph Goebbels:

    The political bourgeoisie is about to leave the stage of history. In its place advance the oppressed producers of the head and hand, the forces of Labor, to begin their historical mission.
    In my opinion, Nazism and Communism were rivals because of a nationalist/internationalist division, not a left/right division.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    Well done, you correctly summarized the summary. This has nothing to do with your bizarre claim that "reimagine" is a specifically communist term.
    I did not claim that "reimagine" is a specifically communist term. Reimagine means to envisage a substantially different idealistic future state of affairs. To me, it also has sense of bringing it into reality by getting enough people to share in the dream and enlightening (indoctrinating) them to the point where it can be realized. Maybe conservatives have started using the word but it is not a natural fit for conservatives. If something is broken, conservatives would seek to amend it to fix it. If something has been lost, they'd seek to restore it. To me, reimagine has a revolutionary and new age vibe.

    The word reimagine makes me think of John Lennon's song imagine.



    To me, the message of this song has the same revolutionary and new age vibe, which makes me think of the Pepe parody.

    Last edited by Guess Who; 04-14-2019 at 11:17 AM.
    Big change is coming

  2. #2092
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    I am not suggesting that Naomi Klein is a super villain - she has most likely taken on one of these collectivist ideologies and is promoting it because she genuinely believes that it will make the world a better place. Marxists have created a wide variety of ideologies that are Marxism in disguise designed to appeal to a wide range of different people and trick them into advancing Marxism. They all contain the essence of Marxism. Can you name any modern ideology that that does not involve class or collectivist thinking and organization?
    In your delerium, you have a point. Marx is the supervillain to capitalism, because Marxism was and is the most comprehensive ideology speaking for the oppressed classes that came to being with capitalism. So calling any anti-capitalist-sounding intellectual a Marxist is not the stupidest knee-jerk reaction to have; it's expressing an instinctive understanding of Marxism as capitalism's most important ideological rival.

    I would just like to suggest that anyone that is not organized, or actively seeking to be organized, is not a Marxist. Organization is inherent to Marxism, because Marxism is a philosophy of praxis. So, aside from the obvious, that basically disqualifies Naomi Klein as a Marxist. It's not to say a public intellectual can't make huge changes (more than many parties, even). I'm just saying the woman isn't out there trying to organize the working class into ultimately overthrowing the capitalist state. Also, I had the chance to know her (and interpret for her). She was much more concerned about seeing events from the point of view of grassroots spontaneity than about recognizing the role and achievements of parties. That wasn't surprising.

    Oh, you say you have read Capital. I think you must be confused. What volumes have you read of Capital, again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  3. #2093
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    In your delerium, you have a point. Marx is the supervillain to capitalism, because Marxism was and is the most comprehensive ideology speaking for the oppressed classes that came to being with capitalism. So calling any anti-capitalist-sounding intellectual a Marxist is not the stupidest knee-jerk reaction to have; it's expressing an instinctive understanding of Marxism as capitalism's most important ideological rival.
    This is where I was coming from. The rhetoric sounds pretty mild but the ideology is actually quite revolutionary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I would just like to suggest that anyone that is not organized, or actively seeking to be organized, is not a Marxist. Organization is inherent to Marxism, because Marxism is a philosophy of praxis. So, aside from the obvious, that basically disqualifies Naomi Klein as a Marxist. It's not to say a public intellectual can't make huge changes (more than many parties, even). I'm just saying the woman isn't out there trying to organize the working class into ultimately overthrowing the capitalist state. Also, I had the chance to know her (and interpret for her). She was much more concerned about seeing events from the point of view of grassroots spontaneity than about recognizing the role and achievements of parties. That wasn't surprising.
    That makes sense. Naomi Klein and her ideas are not literally Marxist but there are similarities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Oh, you say you have read Capital. I think you must be confused. What volumes have you read of Capital, again?
    I definitely read a book by Karl Marx but may well be confused about which book I read. I only read one book, not multiple volumes. I read the one that extensively discusses pin manufacturing.
    Last edited by Guess Who; 04-14-2019 at 11:14 PM.
    Big change is coming

  4. #2094
    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Also, I had the chance to know her (and interpret for her).
    Oh cool! Have you read This Changes Everything?

    It's been on my list for a long time (like most environmental books because they're all too depressing)

  5. #2095
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    Oh cool! Have you read This Changes Everything?

    It's been on my list for a long time (like most environmental books because they're all too depressing)
    Nah, I haven't read anything by her since 2001. I also wouldn't reach for an environmental book, tbh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  6. #2096
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guess Who View Post
    I definitely read a book by Karl Marx but may well be confused about which book I read. I only read one book, not multiple volumes. I read the one that extensively discusses pin manufacturing.
    Well, you should not say it lightly, because it's one thing to read any old book by Marx, and an entirely different thing to read Capital. Marx took decades to write it (never even finishing it) and reading it is normally a years-long endeavour. Not even people who have a vital interest in Marxism have read it in full, as a general rule, but only the first volume (or book - my edition is in 8 volumes... good luck to me). Not because it's extremely long, which it is, but because you have to understand it. In Argentina, the country's leading expert on Capital offers two-year courses just to study the first volume in depth.

    So don't say on the internet "I read Capital, and..." just to make a point, because anyone who has so much as picked up Capital knows that can't be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  7. #2097
    Is "All the best mate" the Aussie equivalent of the Southerner's "Bless your heart?"
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- Aristotle

  8. #2098
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Well, you should not say it lightly, because it's one thing to read any old book by Marx, and an entirely different thing to read Capital. Marx took decades to write it (never even finishing it) and reading it is normally a years-long endeavour. Not even people who have a vital interest in Marxism have read it in full, as a general rule, but only the first volume (or book - my edition is in 8 volumes... good luck to me). Not because it's extremely long, which it is, but because you have to understand it. In Argentina, the country's leading expert on Capital offers two-year courses just to study the first volume in depth.

    So don't say on the internet "I read Capital, and..." just to make a point, because anyone who has so much as picked up Capital knows that can't be.
    OK. I didn't realise that there were 8 volumes. I don't move in revolutionary circles, so I am lacking this sort of basic knowledge. I'll be more sensitive in future.
    Last edited by Guess Who; 04-15-2019 at 07:10 PM.
    Big change is coming

  9. #2099
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    Is "All the best mate" the Aussie equivalent of the Southerner's "Bless your heart?"
    I don't know exactly how the phrase "bless your heart" is used by people from the southern United States but Wikipedia says
    "Bless your heart" is a phrase that is common in the Southern United States. The phrase has multiple meanings. It can be used as a sincere expression of sympathy or genuine concern. It can be used as a precursor to an insult to soften the blow.
    I'd have to answer no to your question.

    The phrase itself does not convey a sincere expression of sympathy or genuine concern but feelings of sympathy or concern can cause people to utter it. The phrase can also be used when there is no sympathy or concern involved such as a parting comment after catching up with a friend. It just means "I wish you well" and can be used in good times or bad.
    Big change is coming

  10. #2100
    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
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    for people who have cats: do you let your cat(s) on the bed? do you let them walk all over your pillows??? how do you approach pillow hygiene?

    every time i sleep in the bed where the cat's allowed, i get acne. i don't think i'm imagining this, but i can't imagine not letting the cat on the bed. (it's HER bed.)
    i sneeze like a grandpa.

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