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Thread: Little questions that don't deserve their own thread

  1. #21
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    - If I may add my own question after all this rambling: How does one pronounce Latin phrases in English??? The way I learnt it was to pronounce it more or less like an Italian would, with the exception of the c's. So the phrase
    NIHIL SANCTISNE
    for instance, would be pronounced
    "nee-heel sunk-tis-neh". But how in English? I can't quite get over where the i's are pronounced in an English manner and where they aren't ("alumni", ah-loom-nee, or rather the English pronunciation "ah-lum-nye", strikes me as a strange example).
    It really depends on who has taught you. There is little formal pronunciation training - after all it is all read, predominantly. Some books will, for example dictate to you that 'Julius Caeser' should be pronounced 'YUL-ius KAE-ser' but most don't and few people do. Some people just read with an English accent - others try something more Italianate. In addition, pronouncing Classical and Church Latin is often quite a different process and so there is a division there also (in Church Latin the 'c's are pronounced as 'ch' not 'k', for example).
    Last edited by ferrus; 11-15-2014 at 07:35 PM.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrus View Post
    It really depends on who has taught you. There is little formal pronunciation training - after all it is all read, predominantly. Some books will, for example dictate to you that 'Julius Caeser' should be pronounced 'YUL-ius KAE-ser' but most don't and few people do. Some people just read with an English accent - others try something more Italianate. In addition, pronouncing Classical and Church Latin is often quite a different process and so there is a division there also (in Church Latin the 'c's are pronounced as 'ch' not 'k', for example).
    I see. It's a shame, though, that correct pronunciation is so sorely neglected! After all, many of the great works, but particularly Ovid's and Horace's, can only truly be appreciated when recited correctly and melodically, and, alas, in the right metre...
    NB. I just unsuccessfully tried to find a link to an English-language website detailing the twenty-five or so different metres mentioned in the beginning of my old collection of Latin poetry, plus the nineteen types of verses than can be created employing them. It seems that the anglophone world is far more concerned with the mere content and "storyline", which one could consider more "efficient", I suppose, from a strictly historical viewpoint. Most peculiar...

  3. #23
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    NB. I just unsuccessfully tried to find a link to an English-language website detailing the twenty-five or so different metres mentioned in the beginning of my old collection of Latin poetry, plus the nineteen types of verses than can be created employing them. It seems that the anglophone world is far more concerned with the mere content and "storyline", which one could consider more "efficient", I suppose, from a strictly historical viewpoint. Most peculiar...
    Primarily because most people in the English speaking world never gain a familiarity - even at university - with the language sufficiently to allow that sort of close reading. Indeed I would warrant a good majority of people who learn to read it at universities now are historians of antiquity or medievalists. Classicists are more likely to focus on the meter and so on - my brother actually studies this so it would be interesting to ask him to what depth he reads the material. I think a lot of modern classicists nonetheless do focus predominately on the historical context rather than the form of the literature because of the nature of modern universities - and I'm not sure how well the typical student of those who studied classics in the past knew this either; primarily because whilst a knowledge of Latin was a cultural adornment that marked you out as cultured, the British ruling class (and indeed the British in general) have typically been suspicious of those who go beyond learning for mere form's sake.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrus View Post
    Primarily because most people in the English speaking world never gain a familiarity - even at university - with the language sufficiently to allow that sort of close reading. Indeed I would warrant a good majority of people who learn to read it at universities now are historians of antiquity or medievalists. Classicists are more likely to focus on the meter and so on - my brother actually studies this so it would be interesting to ask him to what depth he reads the material. I think a lot of modern classicists nonetheless do focus predominately on the historical context rather than the form of the literature because of the nature of modern universities - and I'm not sure how well the typical student of those who studied classics in the past knew this either; primarily because whilst a knowledge of Latin was a cultural adornment that marked you out as cultured, the British ruling class (and indeed the British in general) have typically been suspicious of those who go beyond learning for mere form's sake.
    I see! Thank you for clarifying - it really is a cultural difference then. Perhaps due to its (often exaggerated) foible for style and outward form, Austria has a long tradition of teaching Ancient metre - a whole school year used to be devoted to this study under HM Maria Theresia, even up until the 1860's, and though much condensed over time, it was still fairly amply taught until the 1970's; whereas nowadays, as isn't hard to imagine, the subject has been reduced to next to nothing in the modern curricula. Sadly, I say, for it deprives young people's minds of great clarity and beauty. - Well, it can't be helped, I suppose.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    How do you recover from negative feedback?

    I'm pretty sure I just got a terrible grade on a paper because I forgot to include a thesis statement in it (LOL!). I'm scared to look because I know I'm going to despise myself after seeing the grade and feedback.

    I suspect that this might be a rhetorical question, but answers are welcome too.

    edit: nvm. Revised rhetorical question: how can I stop centering my existence around feedback and buy an internal locus of control.
    Some of this sounds like you just need to learn to forgive yourself. When things don't go as swimmingly as you'd hope, do NOT pile on. EDIT: Forgot to spell out that it's OK to make mistakes. Allow yourself that freedom. It's also dangerously erroneous to believe you can go through life being perfect.

    Sometimes it just time and distance to get over a negative review. You might also want to expose yourself to more criticism. Not so much to build a tolerance but to understand more about your habits and tendencies and to be able to separate the complaint against your work from you.

    Sometimes criticism can be very useful, even when it doesn't come across as constructive criticism. Sometimes it really just helps being able to learn how distinguish good criticism from bad. In the case of writing, sometimes people will criticize something incorrectly but it may not be unfounded. For example, you write about the whaling industry and plight of the blue whales. Someone suggests there should be something about sea lions not having enough penguins to eat. And you're thinking, wtf? Why would I put that in there? Did you have the TV on while you were reading? You are prolly absolutely correct in to straying too far afield but what the person could be saying is that you're too narrowly focused and there could be some other aspects, environmental impact, cottage industries, lack of emotional connection that is plaguing your paper. Finding new ways to ask the presented criticisms could help. "OK, if I did that, what would it buy me?" "What would I lose if I left this out?" "What am I ultimately trying to accomplish and would this note help or hinder me from getting there?"

    Also, I wouldn't rely too much on one single person all the time. Sometimes you have to because you're doing something to please the person who's paying or maybe that person has a lot more experience and insight. But always remember nobody knows nothing. One thing that's helped me over the years is getting as much feed back as possible. When people start giving me the same note two or three times, even if I disagree, I'll try to make adjustments. Sometimes a second person can better clarify what someone else says. Or, a second voice could call out something as not being a problem after all. You'll never have unanimous opinions about anything. The more you learn and experience, the more you can discern what's helpful and when you need to stick to your guns, which, if it means fail by your own means instead of being uncertain and possibly failing by theirs, so be it.

    Prolly the best that can come out of it is preventing yourself from getting bit by the same cat twice. Criticism can suck and be painful, it may take a while but the most important thing you can do to defeat or get over it is to get back up on that seat and try again. That simple. Cliches and all. Fix what you did wrong and become better at your craft.

    I think if you focus on the process and learn to take satisfaction in your work, maybe set goals of what you'd like to achieve, it might alleviate the need for praise at the end. Sometimes, like for artists, they want the consumer to be happy with their creation, so yeah, it's not going to be 100% possible, ever. But feel good for finishing and conveying what you want to portray and it'll lessen the need for cheers and reduce the sting from nays. Cuz really, you don't want a lot of success defining you any more that your failures. That success from external measures means everything has to be one of the biggest lies going out here. No one who lives that way is ever truly at peace or happy. They're too stupid to leave but they'll all tell as much.

    It's all part of the growing process. Sorry, still happens after all your schooling and well past when you're able to vote or drink.
    Last edited by Spartan26; 11-15-2014 at 11:27 PM. Reason: forgot something

  6. #26
    Merry Christmas Dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    By actively visualising how little tangible influence someone's mere perception of you or your work has on your actual existence...
    Thanks, good points. I'm trying to ingrain this knowledge better and I think I'm succeeding. I think I'm finally becoming more comfortable with the world and less reliant on what people think of me. It's important to remember that all anyone ever sees is a fragment of me, not the total, and certainly not my future/potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    by being in situations that force you to get a lot of it, by developing your inner "criticism filter" that determines which people/criticisms are worth listening to, by being honest about what's true and actively taking the steps to improve yourself.

    i pretty much expect people to disapprove of me (or something i did) or not like me. i beat most of them to the punch when it comes to criticism. sometimes it doesn't help, but whatever i'm doing hasn't messed me up yet. it's become such a normal way of operating for me that i'm not sure anybody should be listening to me. i've been criticized for being too self-critical, but what they don't understand is that i like myself and just wanna improve. and i do improve, i think.
    I'm trying to get over this too. That "strategy" of beating people to the punch backfires on me all the time (especially when the punch was imaginary in the first place. Then I'm just punching myself and asking other people to follow suit).

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan26 View Post
    Some of this sounds like you just need to learn to forgive yourself. When things don't go as swimmingly as you'd hope, do NOT pile on. EDIT: Forgot to spell out that it's OK to make mistakes. Allow yourself that freedom. It's also dangerously erroneous to believe you can go through life being perfect.

    Sometimes it just time and distance to get over a negative review. You might also want to expose yourself to more criticism. Not so much to build a tolerance but to understand more about your habits and tendencies and to be able to separate the complaint against your work from you.

    Sometimes criticism can be very useful, even when it doesn't come across as constructive criticism. Sometimes it really just helps being able to learn how distinguish good criticism from bad. In the case of writing, sometimes people will criticize something incorrectly but it may not be unfounded. For example, you write about the whaling industry and plight of the blue whales. Someone suggests there should be something about sea lions not having enough penguins to eat. And you're thinking, wtf? Why would I put that in there? Did you have the TV on while you were reading? You are prolly absolutely correct in to straying too far afield but what the person could be saying is that you're too narrowly focused and there could be some other aspects, environmental impact, cottage industries, lack of emotional connection that is plaguing your paper. Finding new ways to ask the presented criticisms could help. "OK, if I did that, what would it buy me?" "What would I lose if I left this out?" "What am I ultimately trying to accomplish and would this note help or hinder me from getting there?"

    Also, I wouldn't rely too much on one single person all the time. Sometimes you have to because you're doing something to please the person who's paying or maybe that person has a lot more experience and insight. But always remember nobody knows nothing. One thing that's helped me over the years is getting as much feed back as possible. When people start giving me the same note two or three times, even if I disagree, I'll try to make adjustments. Sometimes a second person can better clarify what someone else says. Or, a second voice could call out something as not being a problem after all. You'll never have unanimous opinions about anything. The more you learn and experience, the more you can discern what's helpful and when you need to stick to your guns, which, if it means fail by your own means instead of being uncertain and possibly failing by theirs, so be it.

    Prolly the best that can come out of it is preventing yourself from getting bit by the same cat twice. Criticism can suck and be painful, it may take a while but the most important thing you can do to defeat or get over it is to get back up on that seat and try again. That simple. Cliches and all. Fix what you did wrong and become better at your craft.

    I think if you focus on the process and learn to take satisfaction in your work, maybe set goals of what you'd like to achieve, it might alleviate the need for praise at the end. Sometimes, like for artists, they want the consumer to be happy with their creation, so yeah, it's not going to be 100% possible, ever. But feel good for finishing and conveying what you want to portray and it'll lessen the need for cheers and reduce the sting from nays. Cuz really, you don't want a lot of success defining you any more that your failures. That success from external measures means everything has to be one of the biggest lies going out here. No one who lives that way is ever truly at peace or happy. They're too stupid to leave but they'll all tell as much.

    It's all part of the growing process. Sorry, still happens after all your schooling and well past when you're able to vote or drink.
    Thank you! A lot of useful things to think about here.
    "Better not to feel too much until the crisis ends—and if it never ends, at least we’ll have suffered a little less, developed a useful dullness...The constant—and very real—fear of being hurt, the fear of death, of intolerable loss, or even of “mere” humiliation, leads each of us, the citizens and prisoners of the conflict, to dampen our own vitality, our emotional and intellectual range, and to cloak ourselves in more and more protective layers until we suffocate." - Toni Morrison

  7. #27
    Merry Christmas Dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    If your father bought a patch of land in Pennsylvania many decades ago, which you basically forgot about, and then a fracking company offers to pay you tons of cash (tens of thousands minimum) so they can frack it up, would you accept?
    Asking on behalf of Mom (not that she would ask this question). But cool I guess. Money yay
    "Better not to feel too much until the crisis ends—and if it never ends, at least we’ll have suffered a little less, developed a useful dullness...The constant—and very real—fear of being hurt, the fear of death, of intolerable loss, or even of “mere” humiliation, leads each of us, the citizens and prisoners of the conflict, to dampen our own vitality, our emotional and intellectual range, and to cloak ourselves in more and more protective layers until we suffocate." - Toni Morrison

  8. #28
    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    Asking on behalf of Mom (not that she would ask this question). But cool I guess. Money yay
    Has anyone been to the plot of land since it was purchased? Fracking is terrible, but that is a lot of money...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    Asking on behalf of Mom (not that she would ask this question). But cool I guess. Money yay
    I'd request a percentage of any profits earned on top of the flat rate.

    Edit: And in the slim chance you haven't already done so, definitely hire a lawyer to work out the details if she's actually going to go forward with it.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dot View Post
    Asking on behalf of Mom (not that she would ask this question). But cool I guess. Money yay
    What I'd do:
    1) hire a good real estate atty

    2) try to find out if the land will be mined itself or is it just part of the surrounding area the energy company would like to own. (this may not be possible but there's a chance to look at local topological maps and assess the chances. Or do your own mineral assessment)

    3) Have your atty make an all-in counter offer, largely based on the probability that your land will be directly accessed for mining. Energy co will curse and strut and posture but should eventually answer with a counter figure. That's now your magic ticket number.

    4) Have your atty, and most likely a commercial real estate agent, look for other suitors based on the energy company's return offer. There could be a private equity fund, a real estate dev team, anti-fracking group, bank or other investor who would pay more for the land and use it as leverage against the energy company. They might try to exploit the land itself. Who cares, not your problem. The trick is to get the 3rd party offer(s) and take them back to the energy company and see if they won't come back with another offer. Take that back to the 3rd party, see if they can't do any better.

    What you don't want to happen is have the energy company buy up all the land around yours and reduce road access to your land unless you travel their private roads, which would be done at a fee so that you have no use for the land and drive down the price to what you would've previously received. Either that or they bring about some imminent domain bs and force you out on less than you would've initially gotten. And don't think "well, the law's behind me" cuz you'll get screwed and you won't have the funds to fight back. Who knows what kind of local yahoo will be in power. The energy company could've already run their candidates and have them in place already and they'll cite whatever kind of public necessity bs to get you off your land.

    Sell the land to the third party and let them get more money or less money or dance the tango with the energy company. You'll get paid. You wouldn't have sold out. No more headaches. Plenty of other land available to buy across the continent.

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