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Thread: Non-Substance Induced Altered State.

  1. #41
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers!* View Post
    I don't know, cause they're weird otherworldly things, something lke ghosts which every adult at church seemed to believe was real, and the thought of them materializing in my room was kinda freaky.
    Yeah, that would be scary to a kid. Someone didn't explain all that very well to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Have you read the Bible?
    The whole thing? Yep. I read several passages every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Hell, demons and angels are the same damn thing.
    Demons and angels have very different purposes, especially with regard to humans, they're definitely not the same thing.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that a problem.

  2. #42
    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skip View Post
    Demons and angels have very different purposes, especially with regard to humans, they're definitely not the same thing.
    So communists and conservatives aren't the same thing? Buddhists and Muslims aren't the same thing? Americans and Norwegians aren't the same thing?

    Demons are angels who rebelled, therefore, they're the same thing. One of them still has the name "Angel of Light".
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

  3. #43
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    So communists and conservatives aren't the same thing? Buddhists and Muslims aren't the same thing? Americans and Norwegians aren't the same thing?
    Wait. What? I'm not sure where you were going with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Demons are angels who rebelled, therefore, they're the same thing. One of them still has the name "Angel of Light".
    They are all spiritual entities, is that what you mean? But angels reside in Heaven and follow the will of God. Demons rebelled against God and either reside in Hell or prowl the earth, looking for someone to lead astray and ultimately destroy. Angels are directed by God, who sends angels to assist humans. Angels do not possess people or animals, they are content to do God's will, but demons are the opposite. They are directed by Satan, who sends them to harass, deceive, entice, enslave and torment people away from God. Demons often try to inhabit or attach themselves to a body, human or animal, to control and possess it. Definitely not the same thing.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that a problem.

  4. #44
    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    I a demon can possess then so can an angel. I see no reason to believe they dont. Demon is just a change of name. They used to be angels. It's like saying an outcast isn't the same thing as a citizen--they're both people, just on different sides of a wall. Just a different name for the same sort of thing. Just looking at it, there's no way to tell. Thieves look like ordinary people, and angels look like demons.

    Both are dispatched primarily to do harm to others. Most every time the Bible speaks of angel being sent out, it's to kill and destroy.

    Edit: to bring this back on track to my original point: Different in what you do is not the same as different in what you are.
    Last edited by Hephaestus; 02-24-2014 at 03:35 AM.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

  5. #45
    Senior Member skip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I a demon can possess then so can an angel. I see no reason to believe they dont.
    There's no list of what angels can do. I don't think there's any mention of them possessing anyone. In what circumstances do you foresee this happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Demon is just a change of name. They used to be angels.
    It's a profound change of purpose and direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    It's like saying an outcast isn't the same thing as a citizen--they're both people, just on different sides of a wall. Just a different name for the same sort of thing. Just looking at it, there's no way to tell. Thieves look like ordinary people, and angels look like demons.
    Angels can appear as people but that's not the same as possessing someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Both are dispatched primarily to do harm to others. Most every time the Bible speaks of angel being sent out, it's to kill and destroy.
    After a cursory review it seems most of the references to angels are as escorts and/or messengers, they rarely kill or destroy anything:

    http://www.raphael.net/Scripture/angels.htm

    One of my favorite angel stories includes a donkey. This guy Balaam is riding his donkey on his way to curse the Israelites, for which he's being paid very well. An angel is sent to block his way in the road. Balaam doesn't see the angel, only his donkey does. Three times she sees the angel and turns aside, and three times Balaam beats her for it. The angel gives the donkey the power of speech and the donkey asks Balaam why he keeps beating her. He says it's because she keeps embarrassing him and if he'd had a sword he would have killed her. She basically responds, "I'm the donkey who's faithfully carried you all these years, why didn't you trust me?" (God was speaking to Balaam through the donkey, of course.)

    If God spoke to me through my donkey I would faint dead away.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that a problem.

  6. #46
    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Whether they rarely kill or destroy anything depends on how you look at the events. The Angel of Death in particular has a pretty enormous list of kills that easily dwarfs any of the events as messengers--and again, I point out that the first thing angels have to say when acting as messengers is "Don't be afraid." They're obviously terrifying to behold. There may be more reports of angels as emissaries, but there are more deaths than messages. And as for escorts, that's something of a double edged sword of implicit death isn't it? "Come with me if you want to live" has two meanings--and there's precedent in the Bible that both are meant.

    Even in the story of Balaam--that angel was going to kill him. That was why it was there. And who knows how many the angel with the fiery sword outside Eden has killed over the millenia, neh?

    How about the bears that ripped apart all those children. Sure, the translated version says they were sent--but reading between the lines with angelic powers, their being possessed isn't much of a leap is it?




    Thought experiment: on a given day, you meet a philanthropist, a murderer and a thief. How many people did you meet?


    Let's take the best case scenario that you met three people. You can't tell them apart by first sight. They're just people. So you watch them sleep. One sleeps fitfully, tossing and turning. One sleeps soundly. The third is up all night with insomnia. Which is which?

    Take your time, it's a trick question, there are no good answers.

    So it goes with angels. Demons are a subset of angels. They look the same, and nowhere does it say an angel won't lie or harm. Often quite the opposite. And given that angels are able to rebel, thus have free will, how do you know the angel you met yesterday is still content to do god's will today? Or even that god's will isn't going to be terrifying for you. It has been enormously terrifying for many of god's faithful servants in the Bible.

    For that matter, rare is the message given by an angel that isn't something to be afraid of. Only two come to mind--possibly three depending on how you view being told your betrothed has been knocked up by god and now you're going to raising the messiah--the message to the shepherds about that birth, and the angel telling Mary and Mary that Jesus had left the tomb. Even in those cases, the first words are 'be not afraid'.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

  7. #47
    New Member Rusty's Avatar
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    Certain soft voices. Not ASMR though.

  8. #48
    dormant
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    floating in an isolation tank (aka sensory deprivation tank, float tank)

    i think the specifics of the experience depends on the individual. for me once i "let go" it's a lot like lucid dreaming, but not exactly. first time was pretty cathartic.

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