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Thread: Myth Swapping

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    Senior Member Makers's Avatar
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    Myth Swapping

    After reading Joseph Campbell, a fascinating man who shares many ideas with Jung, I've become more and more interested in myths across cultures. In addition to myths that Campbell relates, I've learned a few through friends and my former faith. If anyone wants to relate their myths, I’d appreciate it. Here are a few I’m familiar with.

    1) My best friend’s brother spent five years in prison. During his stint, he turned to spirituality, studying every faith, and in fact, preaching Rastafari to a group of followers. He told me that man’s conscious was sparked into being the instant we gained control of fire. This, incidentally, seems to align somewhat with Freud’s myth. That is, upon man’s first encounter with fire we could not control our desire to extinguish it by peeing on it. Once this desire was sublimated, culture began to arise from our ability to control the fire. Because women don’t have the ability to pee on fire women, they are keepers of the home and hearth. Freud said it, not me.

    2) I read some Catholic literature that emphasizes the idea of lightness: not taking one self too seriously, doing good deeds, not carrying hate, etc. The idea is that when we die, we carry our soul’s state into the afterlife. Now keep in mind, the afterlife is eternal. So, if we are in a state of lightness, our souls rise to heaven. If we are in a state of inner turmoil, our souls spiral into hell. Jesus's teaching are merely prescribe measures to help develop lightness.

    3) The headhunter tradition arose from connection between birth and death. In order to have a child, some headhunter tribes had to bring back a head. One life, for one death. This allowed them to keep their ecosystem in balance.

    Some Campbell YouTube videos
    Last edited by Makers; 12-26-2014 at 09:43 PM.
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    Senior Member Linnea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makers!* View Post
    Because women donít have the ability to pee on fire women, they are keepers of the home and hearth. Freud said it, not me.
    So women either are responsible for fires because they don't have the ability to distinguish them or because the responsibility is beyond men who would be too excited and just pee on every fire they find just because they can?

    Interesting that peeing on a fire is deemed something a woman can't do. Women actually do have the ability to pee standing up. Or get a bucket, fetch some water or sand and distinguish the fire with that. Peeing on it sounds somewhat ineffective and juvenile.

    I'm not wondering anymore how Anna Freud ended up with the idea that infants play with food because they in reality would like to play with their excrement.

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    Senior Member Makers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnea View Post
    So women either are responsible for fires because they don't have the ability to distinguish them or because the responsibility is beyond men who would be too excited and just pee on every fire they find just because they can?

    Interesting that peeing on a fire is deemed something a woman can't do. Women actually do have the ability to pee standing up. Or get a bucket, fetch some water or sand and distinguish the fire with that. Peeing on it sounds somewhat ineffective and juvenile.

    I'm not wondering anymore how Anna Freud ended up with the idea that infants play with food because they in reality would like to play with their excrement.
    It's a little ridiculous. I'm not exactly sure the sincerity in which Freud proposes the myth. I do know peeing on a fire is fun, and it seems to become a rather natural inclination after drinking. In fact, I've seen a woman chastise us guys for doing the act. It's not a stretch to imagine a cave woman saying, "I've got to cook on those coals later you heathens."

    Freud also proposes that homes replicate the security we felt in the womb. So, there's connection between the literal and figurative. Women are keepers of the fire and home, as it relates to humanities dwelling before and after birth. Again, this is not my personal belief per-se. Feminist arguments are not grounds I typically engage on unless someone proposes denying agency to any individual. People should not feel limited in their capacity to grow and express themselves by authority-- intellectual authorities, political, spousal, or otherwise.
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    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linnea View Post
    So women either are responsible for fires because they don't have the ability to distinguish them or because the responsibility is beyond men who would be too excited and just pee on every fire they find just because they can?

    Interesting that peeing on a fire is deemed something a woman can't do. Women actually do have the ability to pee standing up. Or get a bucket, fetch some water or sand and distinguish the fire with that. Peeing on it sounds somewhat ineffective and juvenile.

    I'm not wondering anymore how Anna Freud ended up with the idea that infants play with food because they in reality would like to play with their excrement.
    The general idea with Freud is that human inclinations toward complex forms of behavior arise from the redirection of simpler and more basic impulses. ("Sublimation") I don't know what's up with the peeing-on-fire thing, but the idea would probably be that humanity's multivarious achievements in the utilization of combustion must arise from some more primitive urge to control it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

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    Senior Member Makers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    The general idea with Freud is that human inclinations toward complex forms of behavior arise from the redirection of simpler and more basic impulses. ("Sublimation") I don't know what's up with the peeing-on-fire thing, but the idea would probably be that humanity's multivarious achievements in the utilization of combustion must arise from some more primitive urge to control it.
    I'm going to quote the book. As I read it, the story is an illustration of the first part of your post, and it provides an image for his other theories. But everyone can interpret the passage as they wish.

    From Civilization and its Discontents

    Psycho-analytic material, incomplete as it is and not susceptible to clear interpretation, nevertheless admits of a conjecture – a fantastic-sounding one – about the origins of this human feat. It is as though primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine. The legends that we possess leave no doubt about the originally phallic view taken of tongues of flame as they shoot upward. Putting out the fire by micturating – a theme to which modern giants, Gulliver in Lilliput and Rabelais’ Gargantua, still hark back – was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition. The first person to renounce this desire and spare the fire was able to carry it off with him and subdue it to his own use. By damping down the fire of his own sexual excitation, he had tamed the natural force of fire. This great cultural conquest was thus the reward for his renunciation of instinct. Further, it is as though woman had been appointed guardian of the fire which was held captive on the domestic hearth, because her anatomy made it impossible for her to yield to the temptation of this desire. It is remarkable, too, how regularly analytic experience testifies to the connection between ambition, fire, and urethral eroticism.
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    Senior Member Makers's Avatar
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    Here’s some post-modern myth making from Catholicism, “The Death of Ivan Ilych,” and Buddhism.

    We seek wealth with the perception that it’ll elevate us above nature; it’ll elevate us above death. Our fear of death is so strong that people will exploit others to gain wealth. We hang decadent curtains to prevent nature’s light (or truth) to reach us. However, this action results in a spiritual death. Losing touch with nature amplifies the fear we feel when death can no longer be ignored. Before we die, we enter a state of extreme terror that follows us into the afterlife. The afterlife may either be a state of eternal hell, in the catholic tradition. Or, we are reborn as those we have oppressed. Perhaps, a factory line worker making Ipads in China, or an America born in the Appalachia.
    Last edited by Makers; 12-30-2014 at 12:03 AM.
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