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Thread: People who don't feel what they think

  1. #1
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    People who don't feel what they think

    Really piss me off. I'm tired of people who proclaim one thing and then betray the exact opposite sensibilities in the little things they say and do. I mean sometimes it's sort of like a game of political Santa Claus. They insist Santa Claus exists, I pretend to believe them to maintain the peace, but I always get sick of the game at some point. Do they just think I'm fucking stupid or are they actually pathologically lying to themselves?

    Much as I'd love to live in a world where I can take everything at face value, the fact is that I can take nothing at face value. It goes beyond the simple fact that we are all contradictory. Some people say the opposite of what they feel on a regular basis. I don't get it. Don't they get tired? Am I supposed to keep pointing it out all the time or just keep playing Santa Claus? I mean, I understand the fear of saying the wrong thing, I basically live in fear of even my closest friends writing me off in disgust for saying something really unacceptable one day (not like it hasn't happened before). But I can't even avoid it, that's why the prospect is so scary in the first place. These people, they fake it all the time! How do you live like that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

  2. #2
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    I suppose it is common knowledge that most people stick with the first opinion they hear and gradually come to believe it was their own all along. I don't think most are even aware of the discrepancy between that and their actual sentiments – especially when it comes to touchy subjects.

  3. #3
    BeyondUrLatestAdCampaigns ciphersort's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I basically live in fear of even my closest friends writing me off in disgust for saying something really unacceptable one day (not like it hasn't happened before).
    Just from that statement those don't seem like friends to me... certainly not closest friends... acquaintances at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    These people, they fake it all the time! How do you live like that?
    Badly, imo.

    'Fuck em' is pretty much all I have to offer with the information I have and I realize that is probably useless in your situation.

    @Sappho yeah, intellectual laziness seems to be the path of most people. People who will argue over the most banal details while totally ignoring that the foundation their belief rests on is completely imaginary.
    Last edited by ciphersort; 01-11-2015 at 11:42 AM.

  4. #4
    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
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    people say a lot of shit, but their actions, how they treat people immediately around them, etc. says it all. i hate hypocrisy, but if i'd judge a person for something, i'd rather have that be their actions, which matter more.

    people who know how to talk and say all the right things aren't really a threat to anything unless... yeah

    i don't know how they live like that, either. must take a lot of energy to keep up.
    Last edited by jigglypuff; 01-11-2015 at 12:27 PM.
    chatting on discord

  5. #5
    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    In thinking about this question in the context of this forum & its membership and relating it to the topical area of the body politic, And without going too deeply into the water, I think we need to be aware that we have a very personal POV as to what might be a contradiction.
    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

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    Emotional reactions and opinions aren't necessarily the same thing. I don't always think it'a so awesome for emotional reactions to form the sole basis of my opinions. As a matter of fact, I don't think it's a great thing for it to be the sole basis of anyone's opinion. I don't see any good from acting as though it will, even if it's more "authentic".

    I also think it's really goofy to talk all the time about how important it is for some groups to talk about issues in their own words, and their own voices, and then go ahead and deny it to other groups. I suppose the defense of this invokes ""power dynamics", but invoking that is part of the problem for me.

    Lastly, some people change their opinion from time-to-time and re-evaluate where they stand. I think that's something people actually should do. Sometimes things will happen that will confirm my suspicions about the soundness of someone's intellectual underpinning. I can decide that something is the wrong direction. A clear double-standard isn't something I can really look past , speaking for myself.

    I did notice a similar phenomenon to what the OP is talking about and what someone said about identity politics. Albeit, the example that was provided was a different identity.

    I know I got very fed up with the idea that I always have to prove myself on certain things, because of things I can't really control. I'd say over the last year, I decided that "enough is enough", on a few different topics. I decided it was dumb wasting my time arguing with people I don't really disagree with that much, and aren't really ever going to be satisfied anyway.
    Last edited by msg_v2; 01-11-2015 at 06:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you can live up to your ideals, you need better ideals.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you can live up to your ideals, you need better ideals.
    I know that I don't. But I've seen so many people fail at this ( whether they are aware of it or not) to not feel special in this respect.

  9. #9
    Member joft's Avatar
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    From the thread title I thought you were talking about something like a lack of affect, which we probably all have by virtue of being IxTx. This is much more interesting! And it's something I've thought about a lot, too. When I first began to think that most people don't really believe what they say, I came up with this example: theists probably believe in their pet dog (if they have one) more than they actually believe in god. In some abstract sense their belief in god is supposed to be far more important, but it's only as strong as their attention span. They don't ever question or have to self-enforce their belief in the dog, though.

    Maybe there's a relationship between the level of abstraction of the belief and the amount of certainty we can feel about it. Religious, philosophical, and political beliefs are so usually quite abstract. The issues that I remain conflicted about despite spending tons of time thinking about them are abstract ones like deciding between futurism vs. primitivism, anarchy and socialism, etc.

    Yesterday I was watching the sun set over the ocean. At one point I was lying on the grass and looked at the horizon sideways, and thought HOLY SHIT, the Earth is round! I knew this in an abstract sense, I had an instant boost of certainty about that idea which made it visceral. Maybe activating neural circuity associated with perceiving vertical lines in the context of the horizon made me realize that the idea "horizon" is not an intrinsically horizontal thing.

    On some level, all beliefs, as a subset of thoughts, are just not very important. Thoughts have little to no influence on identity or actions.

  10. #10
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joft View Post
    Thoughts have little to no influence on identity or actions.
    I can't decide if this a comforting or appalling idea.
    I'm suspicious of people who say they'll die for a flag but won't wear a mask for their neighbor.

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