Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 39

Thread: Expressing Anger

  1. #11
    Senior Member Linnea's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,458
    I'm very conflict averse, I dislike drama and am very bad at handling negative emotions. My ways of dealing with negative things are far from healthy. If possible I just start avoiding the person who is bothering me. If not possible then I will eventually clam up when the situation gets too stressful for me. This is not a voluntary thing; I actually become unable to speak. I probably developed this habit as a defense mechanism since I cry easily and not speaking is the last thing I do when I try to keep from crying. Being a highly sensitive INTP child of a ISFJ mother who is not very in touch with her feelings and expresses every negative emotion by yelling does not make for healthy coping mechanisms. Of course, said ISFJ only got angrier when I didn't say anything to her when she yelled at me. I didn't know how to deal with her and she really had no idea how to deal with me.

    I love my mom, but the drama in my life really went down when I moved away from home.

    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    yes, but it gets harder when the relationship is dysfunctional or they're "angry" at you cuz they're stressed out about something in their own life and see you as an outlet.
    Quote Originally Posted by ferrus View Post
    My sister (and my dad, and some of his relatives) have extremely dominating and irrational personalities. They insist on something because they, in their SJ way, regard this as something that has to be done, no thinking or discussion involved. They often have quite irrational prejudices and a tendency to make examples of people too.
    I think if I had ever learned to just yell back at my mom, dealing with her might have been a bit easier. She took me not engaging with her as a slight -not saying anything back meant that I thought I was better than her.

    On the other hand dealing with my ESxJ sister is easiest if I just wait till she's calmed down. When the original stressor is gone the thing that allegedly made her angry earlier is often irrelevant.

    I've had one big pointless fight with my sister when she tried to dictate how I should do something. She was right right right and I was wrong and selfish and should think about other people more. Nothing I said to her got through and the whole thing just needlessly caused me stress. I was shaking afterwards and nothing was solved. She probably expected me to apologise after that. She never apologises for anything even after she realises she was wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    Ah, apparently this is a correct way of dealing with SJ's.
    I've also noticed that explaining things is the wrong way to go. Some SJs I know think that you are looking down on them if you try to explain something to them. I've also learned that asking questions to steer the conversation works and eventually the SJ may calm down. Managing them this way seems a bit manipulative but whatever works.

    What do you think about this bit in the article:
    Explaining is almost always a disguised form of fighting back
    I do realise that staying exaggeratedly calm when someone loses their shit is a type of power but just managing other people instead of fighting back is rather annoying. It makes the other people like children and it's your responsibility to diffuse the situation and make them see something else than red. If I have to manage a conversation with someone, I will probably never be able to totally relax in their company afterwards. They become people that I need to somewhat tiptoe around and I have to be more aware where the conversation is going to avoid their trigger points.

  2. #12
    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
    Type
    xxxx
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    zone 10a
    Posts
    6,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    Ah, apparently this is a correct way of dealing with SJ's.
    in my experience (with the people i have the most trouble with), this doesn't work. if they're mad at YOU (or think they're mad at you), this is just gonna piss them off more. they want you to say "you're 100% right and i'm 100% wrong, and from now i'm going to live my entire life for YOU because i have been selfish all my life and owe that to you."

    wow, thinking about this actually makes me kinda mad *deep breath*

    the first one ("please speak more slowly. i'd like to help.") to them would be like slapping them across the face and calling them an idiot, or something else similar.

    there's no need to ask "what would you like me to do?" because you know. they want you to live your entire life for them. they're screaming in your face about it.

    what actually has worked for me was showing that i'm gonna do what i'm gonna do regardless of what they think. i don't believe anymore in hiding in front of the people you're closest with, so i don't keep anything a secret, but at the right moment i've asked them, "why won't you let me be happy?" just like that. it's so weird, though.
    Last edited by jigglypuff; 02-04-2015 at 03:22 PM.
    the clouds in the sky caress my mind so tenderly

  3. #13
    Banned
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Desolation Row
    Posts
    3,942
    I definitely know that asking questions doesn't always work.

    Also, what about people who think anger is good if it's for the right cause?




    Quote Originally Posted by Linnea
    I've also noticed that explaining things is the wrong way to go. Some SJs I know think that you are looking down on them if you try to explain something to them. I've also learned that asking questions to steer the conversation works and eventually the SJ may calm down. Managing them this way seems a bit manipulative but whatever works.
    These customers are great. "I'm not an idiot! "

    I didn't think you were before, but now that you just said that to me after you were freaking out earlier because you have no idea what's going on, that may change things. I may have to revise my opinion.

    I would say that asking what you would like me to do definitely doesn't always work.


    That being said:

    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    His advice includes tips like, “If you feel like a preschool teacher, you’re probably doing it right,"
    I get this feeling often.
    Last edited by msg_v2; 02-04-2015 at 04:11 PM.

  4. #14
    आत्मन् Sappho's Avatar
    Type
    INTJ
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Pannonia
    Posts
    5,288
    Quote Originally Posted by Linnea View Post
    I do realise that staying exaggeratedly calm when someone loses their shit is a type of power but just managing other people instead of fighting back is rather annoying. It makes the other people like children and it's your responsibility to diffuse the situation and make them see something else than red. If I have to manage a conversation with someone, I will probably never be able to totally relax in their company afterwards. They become people that I need to somewhat tiptoe around and I have to be more aware where the conversation is going to avoid their trigger points.
    I could not agree more. What always struck me as bizarre is how much serenity stokes already-enraged people's ire. Each and every time I wonder, "Shouldn't they be glad someone is keeping a cool head and actually trying to solve the problem?" They rarely are, and what usually ensues are the standard accusations of "Look at you, you're so cold", "You're behaving like a robot", "Show feelings already", and so on. Apparently insults are an acceptable SJ procedure while rationally explaining things is considered "fighting back".

    /rant

  5. #15
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Barcelona, Catalonia
    Posts
    5,669
    Usually the best response to SJs is to let their own stupidity defeat their own purpose and try to avoid any splashback that comes your way.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

  6. #16
    Global Moderator Polemarch's Avatar
    Type
    ENTP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,675
    After exiting a relationship with an SFJ (and another relationship before that with a SxJ), I can tell you that your emotions will always get trumped by theirs. Anytime I was upset about something and told my ex, she would find a way to get twice as upset as I was about the fact that I'm upset, so we'd spend the rest of our time dealing with her feelings about my feelings, and none of the time dealing with the actual problem I reported.

    I can communicate about feelings, because I translate them into words and thoughts. That's the world I live in, words, thoughts, arguments, logic, discourse. But feelers - particularly SFJs - don't live in that world. For them, words and thoughts are the artificial, and feelings are the real. So the fact that they feel whatever they feel - that IS reality for them, it is the truth, the way, the life. And all of your words and thoughts about that are at best superfluous.

    My advice is to stay the fuck away from anyone who can't use their words, or anyone who can't think abstractly about a problem. That will drastically narrow the pool of people you can associate with, but whatever.

    Going back to the OP's initial prompt, I express my anger more openly than I suppose I should. Feelers tend to react strongly to my tone and demeanor, which comes across as either abrasive or intimidating, because they read the emotion and ignore the words or context. Thinkers - particularly NTs - tend to perceive me completely differently than SJs do. NTs usually see me as even keel and safe.
    We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock landed on us.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Linnea's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,458
    Quote Originally Posted by tele View Post
    the first one ("please speak more slowly. i'd like to help.") to them would be like slapping them across the face and calling them an idiot, or something else similar.
    Oh yes, if I was one to enjoy drama this sentence would have been perfect if I wanted to see my mom explode from anger.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Also, what about people who think anger is good if it's for the right cause?
    Also people who think being angry and fighting things out regularly is healthy. Otherwise things "fester" and are abnormal. Because, you know, talking about problems is impossible unless you are foaming at the mouth from rage and yelling at the top of your lungs. That's the healthy way to deal with things. It's also the only constructive way of talking about who should have done the bloody dishes and emptied the Fucking Trash Bin! (<- I was tempted to write the whole thing in caps for more accuracy but I refrained.)

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    These customers are great. "I'm not an idiot! "
    There's also the passive aggressive version: "I know you think I'm stupid!" The expected answer being "of course I don't. etc. etc. placate placate."

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    That being said:
    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    His advice includes tips like, “If you feel like a preschool teacher, you’re probably doing it right,"
    I get this feeling often.
    The problem is that you shouldn't have to feel like a preschool teacher when dealing with adults. It's exhausting in the long run. Well, it's exhausting in the short run too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    I could not agree more. What always struck me as bizarre is how much serenity stokes already-enraged people's ire. Each and every time I wonder, "Shouldn't they be glad someone is keeping a cool head and actually trying to solve the problem?" They rarely are, and what usually ensues are the standard accusations of "Look at you, you're so cold", "You're behaving like a robot", "Show feelings already", and so on. Apparently insults are an acceptable SJ procedure while rationally explaining things is considered "fighting back".

    /rant
    Can it be that someone staying calm really drives in the fact that they are behaving unreasonably? So they end up feeling even worse and then get more angry at the other person because it's somehow their fault.

    There's also the classic accusation of "You are always so arrogant".

  8. #18
    Sky Anvil Vison's Avatar
    Type
    INFP
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Outback
    Posts
    747
    This is actually something I've had issues with in various ways throughout my life.

    At first it was learning to control my temper, which was explosive during my childhood and early teen years. Much effort was put into ripping up the beliefs that led to frequently being enraged and into the actual act of learning not to respond to my own anger.

    I am in a weird spot now where I find myself needing to express it much more frequently than I do. My current strategy of either shrugging it off and fixing the problem or calmly stating my issue/requesting a change in behavior... just doesn't work. I end up fixing everyone's issues, much like the OP. My requests go unheeded, the lack of emotional force behind my words seems to cause people to think that the problem isnt that serious because I'm not really upset.

    So far I have been having luck with allowing a tiny bit of frustration/anger colour my voice and holding eye contact for a fraction of a second too long. How that is responded to determines the follow-up actions.

    I think this falls into the realm of mild intimidation though and I'm trying to find another way.
    Oh fuck it, Its the 90's.

  9. #19
    No Thank You
    Type
    INFP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    near a castle
    Posts
    3,709
    My reactions to irritation and anger are generally the same and somewhat unsatisfying. Right now, and constantly, I am nagged by a lot of little irritants that never go away, like itches, coldness, autocorrect, bumblers, etc. It's distracting and I'm not sure what to do about it.
    I experience full blown anger rarely. I think maybe I tend to internalize it and dilute it with other forms of negative emotions. I recently pinpointed this "metallic" emotion that I frequently experience as internalized anger mixed with sadness. It causes physical pangs and it makes me feel helpless. Because I've identified its components, I think I'm better equipped to deal with it now, though I haven't come up with any strategies yet.

    I often get that feeling after arguments. Arguing makes me feel inarticulate and isolated, which explains the helpless feeling. I can trace this back to my childhood-- both my parents are mega-feelers and I learned that there was no way to prevent our arguments from spiraling to ever greater heights of rage and hypocrisy except by removing myself from the situation, so I made a habit of giving myself "time-outs," in which I would hide in my room and try to be perfectly still, sometimes watching my face in the mirror as it reddened and faded. Like an eight year old Taxi Driver. I do a variety of psychological "time-outs" to this day, when I get angry, and I feel like there must be a better solution, but it's difficult to overcome the automatic inhibition, helplessness, and passivity that I've always resorted to.

  10. #20
    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
    Type
    xxxx
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    zone 10a
    Posts
    6,708
    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Also, what about people who think anger is good if it's for the right cause?
    imo, people who channel their anger into actually making a positive difference in the world have found the most productive way of dealing with it.

    i had a (super toxic ex-)friend, though, who would try to make every petty little frustration or annoyance with somebody she didn't like into a full blown political cause, rallying people against them and saying it was about something else. she'd confide in me about all these people she "hated" and i found it absolutely disgusting. in the end, she started targeting people i was close with (to test my loyalty?) and did that exact same thing to me, lol. it was kinda creepy.
    the clouds in the sky caress my mind so tenderly

Similar Threads

  1. Evolutionary role of anger.
    By msg_v2 in forum Psychology & Sociology
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-22-2017, 12:54 AM
  2. Expressing Personal Political Opinions on Social Media
    By INTP_Polly in forum News, Culture & History
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 10-03-2017, 05:59 PM
  3. Projecting Anger and Fear
    By Makers!* in forum Psychology & Sociology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-19-2014, 02:28 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •