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Thread: Wiki Note: INTP Women Across Cultures

  1. #1
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Wiki Note: INTP Women Across Cultures

    Since the Wiki is down, I thought it would be a good idea to have a place-holder thread.

    No idea if this is the best place for it.

    Also I've never actually added anything to the wiki... or indeed spent much time viewing it. But in theory I can and shall.

    Anyway. I've been thinking about INTP and gender and came across this interesting study: INTP Women Across Cultures. It seems like it would be a good thing to bookmark on the wiki.

    I had heard about our bad reputation before.

    Phrases most often used to describe [INTP women]:
    • is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations
    • keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships
    • is subtly negativistic; tends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage
    • tends to be self-defensive
    • extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame
    However, other than being (correctly) perceived as cold and distant, I don't believe that people find me to be particularly distrustful or defensive. On the contrary, even extroverted feeling coworkers have found me to be pleasantly level-headed and laid back. ...Also generally professional and proficient but dangerously unmotivated and moody when bored. But I'm pretty sure that's just an INTP thing, not an INTP female thing.

    I wonder if it's maybe a generational issue... Perhaps the social role of women is less rigid than it used to be, and so an NT woman is not resented for being an aberration but rather just runs into the same problems as other NTs.
    Last edited by Ptah; 02-23-2015 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Moved to MBTI forum, updated title to indicate subject

  2. #2
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    This response. This is what I was thinking of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennywocky via PersonalityCafe cross-over can I even do this?
    It didn't help that Thorne and Gough's research is now 20 years old, it involved data probably from 1961-1991, and necessarily was covering a lot of the first waves of feminism, with INTP women in a professional subsection of the world that was still very occupationally male. Specifically, a lot of those traits seem to be the traits of survivors to me, either skills that enable one to survive and/or are the result of being forced to survive in a hostile environment. INTP women aren't going to put up with bullshit and just roll over, or necessarily practice social grace or try to win friends, even if some of us have developed the ability to do so.

    It would be more interesting to see what the consensus is nowadays, with many more occupational opportunities and women far more respected in the workplace even if things are not quite equal. Also, while INTP women still seem to report being "misunderstood," I think the culture is more accepting than it used to be; pretty much if you couldn't conform to the female role in 60's or 70's, you were still in trouble; and especially as far back as the 50's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaJ View Post
    I had heard about our bad reputation before.
    What's bad about it? With the exception of the last point, they all strike me as accurate.

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    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    What's bad about it? With the exception of the last point, they all strike me as accurate.

    I think the last three in particular sound pretty anti-social:

    • is subtly negativistic; tends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage
    • tends to be self-defensive
    • extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame

    Unless by "undermine and obstruct or sabotage" the mean "question and analyze."

    The description is from 1991, which is slightly out of date, but it's not like it's a different era. :-/

    Thorne and Gough compiled the words and phrases observers used tobdescribe/assess different types and then reported those most highly correlated with a particular type. According to Thorne and Gough, “a large number of correlates were significant for both male and female INTPs, making this type one of the most clearly depicted” (1991, p. 86).

    The words and phrases used most often to describe INTP women were entirely negative. Those used most often to describe male INTPs were mixed — some positive and some negative. INTP females were depicted more negatively than women in general and than women of any other type. Female INTP descriptions were also more negative than those for any male type.

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    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaJ View Post
    I think the last three in particular sound pretty anti-social:

    is subtly negativistic; tends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage
    tends to be self-defensive
    extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame

    Unless by "undermine and obstruct or sabotage" the mean "question and analyze."
    I think you are probably right, "negativistic" is SJ speak for constructive criticism and not "going along with the group". And when the plan in which all the flaws the INTP identify come to pass, I guess pointing that out is considered "extrapunative". But I would expect male INTPs to get the same feedback, although I could see women taking more heat for speaking up.

    I don't find INTPs self-defensive, but I suspect female INTPs might get self defensive if their opinions are discounted merely on account of their gender.

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    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Ahhhh, there's that paper. I was thinking about it the other day. Mentioned it in some other thread I think.

    I stumbled upon it while analyzing the reason I have so much trouble getting along with my ESFJ mother-in-law. We took the Myers Briggs together in an attempt to understand each other and answered every single question oppositely. I showed her this paper. I think if nothing else it helped her to understand that my behavior was not about her, nor was it a condemnation of her. I am actually this way. She likened accepting my behavior to accepting her gay son, with the condescending implications of her "it isn't our fault we are like this" attitude hanging thick in the air.

    And the funny thing is, the behavior she has to accept in spite of all isn't me being me without regard to her feelings, it is me trying very hard not to say the wrong things. I've decided we are both better off if I say nothing because she reads so many things that aren't there into what I say that any erroneous implication gleaned from my silence is most assuredly the lesser of two evils.

    Now she is trying...but in a very wooden and transparent way. She attempts to relate everything I say to computers and robots as a way of bridging the gap...like I showed her a picture of a cute puppy that looks like hers and she chewed awkwardly through a comment on the technical skills involved in taking the picture, thinking that was what I was interested in. It's becoming funny and endearing. And it is starting to work sort of. My plumbing skills saved their extremely lavish home from a major disaster on Thanksgiving day. That went a long way toward convincing her that my plebeian manners may be of some benefit after all.

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    libertine librarian sandwitch's Avatar
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    We need to find a good INTP variant (cuz really, is "getting stuff done" an appropriate goal? perhaps we should spend some time discussing it first and eat pie) on this image:

    I wanna see your goodreads, so add me.

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    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwitch View Post
    We need to find a good INTP variant (cuz really, is "getting stuff done" an appropriate goal? perhaps we should spend some time discussing it first and eat pie) on this image:

    Wouldn't it be fucking Awesome if Tina Fey were a Member here?
    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

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    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrionzRevenge View Post
    Wouldn't it be fucking Awesome if Tina Fey were a Member here?
    I read Bossy Pants and did not get an INTP vibe. Almost certainly extrovert, but whatever. Welcome, Tina Fey!!!

  10. #10
    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaJ View Post
    I read Bossy Pants and did not get an INTP vibe. Almost certainly extrovert, but whatever. Welcome, Tina Fey!!!
    Inorite?

    But her passion is comedy and acting so it might come with the turf.

    CelebrityTypes says:

    INTP

    Tina Fey

    Comedic writer and actress

    Fey: "Comedy is only funny when it is telling the truth."
    Fey: "I live every writer's fantasy of being mostly a writer, but getting to be on TV just a little bit to get acknowledgment for being a writer."
    Fey: "Being a good boss means hiring talented people and then getting out of their way."
    Fey: "I don't have a driver's license. It's just one of the many ways in which I am developmentally stunted. ... Things most people do naturally are often inexplicably difficult for me."
    Fey: "I have no affinity for animals. I don't hate animals and I would never hurt an animal; I just don't actively care about them. When a coworker shows me cute pictures of her dog, I struggle to respond correctly, like an autistic person who has been taught to recognize human emotions from flash cards."
    Fey: "I have once or twice been offered a 'mother of the year' award by working-mom groups or a mommy magazine, and I always decline. How could they possibly know if I'm a good mother? How can any of us know until the kid is about thirty-three and all the personality dust has really settled? But working moms want to validate that it's okay to work, especially if they work at magazines where they can then package that validation and sell it to stay-at-home moms who are craving news from the outside world."
    Fey: "I'm not a mean person, but I have a capacity for it. I have the biting comment formed somewhere in the back of my head - like it's in captivity."


    [Her husband:] "She has her principles and she sticks to her principles more than anybody I've ever met in my life."

    Amy Poehler: "[She doesn't] belly-flop into the pool at the pool party. She watches everybody else's flops and then writes a play about it."
    Alec Baldwin: "She's so bright you're always wondering if you're boring her."


    Unusually for INTPs, Fey also has Narcissistic traits.
    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

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