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Thread: Insanity

  1. #1
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    Insanity

    Propaganda is no longer the prerogative of the state and the church. Every corporation has a shot at convincing you to donate some of your money to them and we're bombarded with commercials non-stop. You no longer get your identity for free because of what you do (I am a cobbler) but you more or less have to buy it (I own an iphone. I go on vacation to cuba. I've bought plastic breasts). I don't think it's possible to buy yourself a complete identity that you're happy with. Never one that is better than the one you were born with.

    You have to put up with some shit for other people so they'll know you're on their team (dress the part, talk the jargon, do the little song and dance for society). You have to sell out to belong. That is as old as history itself. But there have never been this many buyers and I think vulnerable and weak people don't know when to stop selling out anymore.

    I think that's why there are so many insane people. Maybe it has never been otherwise.

    Thoughts?

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    In my opinion the problem isn't really the consumer culture – after all, in some form a desire for luxury has been prevalent in the upper classes since at least Baroque times –; the problem as I see it is that it is so terribly widespread.

    There is a lot to say against aristocracy by birth, but at least its members received a profound humanistic tuition which, at least in the better of men, kept vanity and senseless spending at bay. Also, the upper class was not at all homogenous: as an antagonist to nobility by birth, there existed a "nobility of wealth", which you could attain by economic savvy, as well as a "nobility of the mind", i. e. a humanistic/artistic/scientific talent of some kind, with which you also could make great strides in the world.

    Modern society has established a questionable system of "fairness" with money being the only, and all-powerful, divider between the classes. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people has not gone through a process of actual Enlightenment in the sense of heeding Kant's sapere aude. Instead, they blindly follow whatever is thrown at them by the desire-creating moloch that is the media. Being able to recite all model numbers of the latest series of (mostly electronic) consumer goods, but unable to identify with the arts and sciences, these still are peasants at heart. Yet democracy, or whatever is left of it, now bestows on them the same rights and resources (both mostly squandered and "sold out", as you put it) as on those who know better – unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    In my opinion the problem isn't really the consumer culture – after all, in some form a desire for luxury has been prevalent in the upper classes since at least Baroque times –; the problem as I see it is that it is so terribly widespread.

    There is a lot to say against aristocracy by birth, but at least its members received a profound humanistic tuition which, at least in the better of men, kept vanity and senseless spending at bay. Also, the upper class was not at all homogenous: as an antagonist to nobility by birth, there existed a "nobility of wealth", which you could attain by economic savvy, as well as a "nobility of the mind", i. e. a humanistic/artistic/scientific talent of some kind, with which you also could make great strides in the world.

    Modern society has established a questionable system of "fairness" with money being the only, and all-powerful, divider between the classes. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people has not gone through a process of actual Enlightenment in the sense of heeding Kant's sapere aude. Instead, they blindly follow whatever is thrown at them by the desire-creating moloch that is the media. Being able to recite all model numbers of the latest series of (mostly electronic) consumer goods, but unable to identify with the arts and sciences, these still are peasants at heart. Yet democracy, or whatever is left of it, now bestows on them the same rights and resources (both mostly squandered and "sold out", as you put it) as on those who know better – unfortunately.
    It is unfortunate when you consider all that it could be. I can't share the view that things were better in the past. Our perception of history is a highlight reel and it is hard to judge the merits of the complete picture based on that. The question of whether or not things were better in the past doesn't seem worth thinking too deeply about either way. We cannot reverse the clock.

    This may be an intermediary period in our educational system. Perhaps when society no longer has need for plumbers we'll lift the standards. Yet I wonder about the amount of critical thinkers a society can sustain and continue working. Put two philosophers in a room and they start arguing. Put two plumbers in a room and they start plumbing.

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    Salesmanship has gotten so pervasive. So many complications. Needs to be broken down mathematically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    Instead, they blindly follow whatever is thrown at them by the desire-creating moloch that is the media. Being able to recite all model numbers of the latest series of (mostly electronic) consumer goods, but unable to identify with the arts and sciences, these still are peasants at heart. Yet democracy, or whatever is left of it, now bestows on them the same rights and resources (both mostly squandered and "sold out", as you put it) as on those who know better – unfortunately.
    It's a good argument against welfare.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Put two philosophers in a room and they start arguing. Put two plumbers in a room and they start plumbing.
    I absolutely agree with this, but it's beside the point. I'm not saying things were better in the past; but they certainly weren't worse. Also, there is nothing to be said against a good, honourable craftsman – quite the opposite, they deserve all possible merit, particularly those who excel in their profession. The peasant mentality I referred to was not about these good people (of whom exist only few, after all!), but about the whole generations of something-for-nothings, the people constantly clamouring for "more" when they have yet to contribute anything to our culture, our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    It's a good argument against welfare.
    It wasn't intended as such. If anything, it is an argument against democracy as we know it. But I can see nothing inherently wrong with the State supporting those who genuinely cannot support themselves due to physical ailments or disabilities; particularly if they contracted them in service to their country, in war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    It's a good argument against welfare.
    Shoving people into the gutter because they're already on the street... is not a good argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Shoving people into the gutter because they're already on the street... is not a good argument.
    I agree
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    I absolutely agree with this, but it's beside the point. I'm not saying things were better in the past; but they certainly weren't worse. Also, there is nothing to be said against a good, honourable craftsman – quite the opposite, they deserve all possible merit, particularly those who excel in their profession. The peasant mentality I referred to was not about these good people (of whom exist only few, after all!), but about the whole generations of something-for-nothings, the people constantly clamouring for "more" when they have yet to contribute anything to our culture, our society.
    That is quite true. The mantra "everybody is entitled to his opinion" is nonsense. Rights come with a duty. A generation that is used to downloading what they want and getting things for free (advertising) in return for future product loyalty - needs to unlearn a lot of things that were taken for granted in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha View Post
    Shoving people into the gutter because they're already on the street... is not a good argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    I agree
    Excuse me, but this is a prime example of leftist rhetoric comfortably twisting words. I cannot even imagine how one would arrive at the conclusion of opposing welfare from what I've said.

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