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Thread: Deserving

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    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Deserving

    What do you think (or feel or believe) you deserve?

    Iíve been coming across various things, including some posts here, of people talking about getting what they deserve in life. This one from motivational speaker Tony Robbins.
    "For changes to be of any true value, they've got to be lasting and consistent. Anytime you sincerely want to make a change, the first thing you must do is to raise your standards....
    If you don't set a baseline standard for what you'll accept in life, you'll find it's easy to slip into behaviors and attitudes or a quality of life that's far below what you deserve....
    Whatever happens, take responsibility...The only thing that's keeping you from getting what you want is the story you keep telling yourself." Tony Robbins
    MMA champion fighter, Rhonda Rousey, has said she deserves to win because she ďtrained harder and sacrificed more.Ē Whether or not that is factually correct I think may be a bit less important than her belief that she should win. Or, maybe it doesn't. If it's proven someone worked harder, should that person deserve to win?

    Do you believe that all that you have you deserve?

    For the bad things that have happened to you, do you believe you deserved them?

    Think of areas of lack or wanting, (career, money, love, a home, degree, etc), are you OK saying that you deserve to have what's missing? If so, why? If not, why not?

    Do you think it is beneficial to think you deserve something or perhaps is that more damaging?

  2. #2
    Sysop Ptah's Avatar
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    I "deserve" to be treated as what I am -- a viably living conscious human being. For instance, in short, I deserve to be free to act as I please, insofar as I do not initiate or threaten to initiate unwelcome physical force upon others. Enter: the root of ethics, proper.

    Beyond that, like anyone else, I deserve what I earn, as follows from my actions (qua what I do) and their consequences in reality.

    To me, "deserve" in any other context or applied beyond that gets into "entitlement" which is bullshit, if you ask me.

    For instance. Do I "deserve" the good things I have in life? Career? Relationships? Friends? Valued belongings? Insofar as I earned them, yes. The proper term (to distinguish it from "entitlement", as we must) would be to say I've "earned" those things, not that I deserve them, to the extent that they actually came into my life as a product of my actions, their consequences in reality, etc. Do I also "deserve" all the bad things that have (and will) happen to me? To the extent I "earned" them, that by my actions, etc, they came to me -- then yes. Else? Not.

    Basically, "deserve" can be properly applied only in the sense of an after-the-fact consequence of action taken or not, with respect to something earned, as such. "Deserve" is bullshit when used in the sense of "entitlement" qua feeling you ought to have something (or not) although you've either done nothing to earn it, or simply haven't successfully done so yet. That's how I see it.

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    I don't think I deserve anything. I think if you work hard towards a goal, you are much more likely to achieve it than if you don't, but I wouldn't say you ever "deserve" success. Or maybe you do. But you aren't entitled to it. Semantics. I think hard work and planning go a long way towards getting the things you want, but there is always some element of luck involved. Just because the luck part of the puzzle didn't fall into place doesn't mean you were cheated, it just means you should try again.

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    Member SimplyRivers's Avatar
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    I really love this question/s, and I would love to discuss about it.

    First, I would like to state that I believe everything happens for a reason. Maybe it was a learning experience, or it helped you overcome something later in life. Therefore, whenever something I consider 'bad' happens to me, I usually ponder over it. For example, I'll think about exactly what happened, and how it connects with me as of this moment.

    Sometimes, I realize later in life, how that experience helped me. So, whether or not I believe that I deserved that; I've come to conclusion that it's subjectional to that moment in time. Meaning, as I grow up I come to realize that although it wasn't the best situation, it helped me grow as a person.

    As for, what I believe I deserve?

    I have a hard time answering, because I have no idea. I admit I have this pessimistic outlook on human beings, because we're so fragile. Yet, we can be the most destructful forces on this world. I always find negatives in myself rather than positives, because I feel like I don't deserve that worth. However, when I hear of people doing charitable acts, I feel happy and elated. I just become overwhelmed with joy, because it seems that acts of kindness are very rare these days.

    In conclusion, I'm pretty much saying I don't believe I deserve anything, because I feel like all I do is take as of this moment and I'm pretty much useless in this world.

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    dormant jigglypuff's Avatar
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    i think most everybody deserves basic things like love and material security. idk about anything/everything else.

    personally, i've had to remind myself that thoughts like "i'm too young to be this happy," when i've felt/thought them, are all bullshit. my default mindset is to think i have to pay my dues for everything, but if you think like that, i realized you don't really have anything, even when they're in front of you. it's such an ugly attitude; it means you're always reaching for something more. i want to have the things that i have that improve my quality of life, and mostly wish the same for others. in this way (my "default"), i'm the opposite of entitled. i've observed however that those who act a bit entitled to things regardless of how they feel tend to get the best treatment and rewards, so i see the value in that, but benefits/success that ride on the wave of some vast historical injustice don't count as legitimate to me. generally people deserve to be rewarded for their own labor and anything else is lying to themselves.

    breaking down the case by case doesn't interest me so i'll leave it at that.

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    Bringer of Jollity MoneyJungle's Avatar
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    A punch in the mouth. Thank goodness our society is too litigious for rational actors to punch people.

    Glimpses do ye seem to see of that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore?

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    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan26 View Post
    If it's proven someone worked harder, should that person deserve to win?
    Eh, "deserve" is a word that expresses a highly subjective opinion, so--sure, if you want to say that, go ahead.

    However, I would say that to view something like a sporting event as merely something where one person "earns" victory by working harder is basically to miss the entire point of it--if you're simply out to determine who trained more, then you could just make up a trophy and give it to whoever logs the most hours in training. No need for the actual competition.

    The point of sporting competitions is the drama that ensues from them having a semi-randomized, non-predetermined outcome. It's certainly possible to prepare oneself so as to increase one's odds of winning, so training is important, but the actual outcome of the fight/game/whatever is supposed to depend wholly, as such, on what happens during the event per se. This is why no one is likely to pay much money to watch, say, an NBA team play against a bunch of guys who hang out at the YMCA, or watch Ronda Rousey fight some random person off the street--precisely the fact that there's no real difficulty in guessing who will win on account of one side obviously being far better prepared. People like watching two similarly prepared competitors go up against each other because we know someone is going to win, but simply knowing what each competitor has done before the event doesn't tell us who that's going to be.

    Situations on the order of someone losing mostly on account of a dicey call by a referee or something are where I would personally start trotting out terminology like "deserved to win". I wouldn't apply it to cases where, say, the underdog happened to get lucky with a certain shot or punch or whatever, or the favorite happened to choke at a critical juncture, because those sorts of moments, or rather the possibility of such moments, kind of defines what sports are fundamentally about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan26 View Post
    If it's proven someone worked harder, should that person deserve to win?
    Bertrand Russell and a 10 year old with brain damage and Down's Syndrome engage in an SAT competition. The kid works super hard, and trains for years. Russell waits until the week before to even note it on his calendar. His preparation consists of making sure he has the right pencil and an approved calculator just in case there's a question involving the sine of an angle he can't readily derive the value of.

    Is Bertrand Russel undeserving of his victory?

    Do we count his years of experience in maths?

    What if we make it a 10 year old BR? Given that I'm bringing him back from the dead, it's reasonable. He's still probably worked less but he's still going to win. Does he not deserve his win?
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

  9. #9
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    Mobile post:

    • Labour theory of value isn't very good.
    • People who think they deserve things do have a general competitive advantage over those that don't, partly because it removes intellectual barriers or costs that get in the way of such goals
    • Generally, these characteristics are most highly present in narcissists and psychopaths
    • I don't think we really "deserve" anything, and I don't think it's a very useful concept beyond a self-serving delusion.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimplyRivers View Post
    First, I would like to state that I believe everything happens for a reason. Maybe it was a learning experience, or it helped you overcome something later in life. Therefore, whenever something I consider 'bad' happens to me, I usually ponder over it. For example, I'll think about exactly what happened, and how it connects with me as of this moment.
    In conclusion, I'm pretty much saying I don't believe I deserve anything, because I feel like all I do is take as of this moment and I'm pretty much useless in this world.
    OK, let me try to pull a little more out of you. Do you believe everything happens for a reason for everybody or just yourself? What about the cases of life altering tragedy? I can think of a great family from my church, husband is a lawyer, wife is a pediatrician, always very helpful and loving, great family. About 6 years ago, they lost their middle son. 12 years old, some type of heart defect, died in his sleep. What could they learn from that? If itís ultimately beneficial, why donít more people experience that? I can think of another couple I know who won the lottery. Five million plus. Theyíve been generous in opening up their home to people in need, giving of their resources, living comfortably not extravagantly, both continued to work. A friend of theirs said ďYou guys deserved to win because you do the right things with the money.Ē

    In the case of the parents who lost their son, theyíve rebounded well. Iím sure they still have pain but I donít know would anyone know unless that specific topic came up that that had happened to them, even after spending a great deal of time with them. Well, maybe some bit of time. It may not be that obscure a subject since they speak fondly of their other two sons. But I donít know if anything changed with them insofar as they havenít made new life goals or attitude changes. They were as they were before.

    Pretty much same as the lottery winners. They let a foreign student stay with them before. They hosted people without family over for holiday gatherings. Itís much easier to suggest or believe they deserved it as a reward for their good works. Would you suspect this is the case?

    If things, (again, not criticizing your stance), happen for a reason, does it become the personís responsibility to find the meaning of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Is Bertrand Russel undeserving of his victory?
    Thatís what Iím asking. What do you think?
    Quote Originally Posted by ACow View Post
    • Labour theory of value isn't very good.
    • People who think they deserve things do have a general competitive advantage over those that don't, partly because it removes intellectual barriers or costs that get in the way of such goals
    • Generally, these characteristics are most highly present in narcissists and psychopaths
    • I don't think we really "deserve" anything, and I don't think it's a very useful concept beyond a self-serving delusion.
    OK, this was kinda where I was hoping things would go. I, like most of the respondents thus far, have a problem with the word ďDeserveĒ when itís so open ended. Iím guessing very few SJs have difficulty with proximity of the word in relating their status. How necessary is it to confront the notion of what we deserve in our lives? Can we compete, well, ďwinĒ or succeed without either embracing or acknowledging what we think we deserve?

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