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Thread: Depression, Suicidal Ideation, Manipulation

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    eyeing you rabbit warrior kitsune's Avatar
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    Split Depression, Suicidal Ideation, Manipulation

    I've been crying the last hour because a friend I've been chatting with all evening told me he was depressed. I tried cheering him up (got him to laugh once), pointing out something positive each time he mentioned something negative about himself, reminding him life is long and cyclic. I know he had had some wine tonight and had taken a Xanax to calm down. Now I'm wondering if he took a whole bottle. He suddenly told me to get some sleep and said goodbye and he's leaving the world. He quoted a Megadeath song in French and turned his phone off immediately. I honestly have no idea if he's drunk and being dramatic and fell asleep or if he has committed suicide from overdose.

    Update:
    I got in touch with his sister who went in his room and confirmed he's ok and sleeping. I'm exhausted.


    (Split from http://forums.intpcomplex.com/showth...y-From-1-To-10 -Resonance)
    Last edited by Resonance; 08-23-2015 at 12:29 AM.

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    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsune View Post
    I've been crying the last hour because a friend I've been chatting with all evening told me he was depressed. I tried cheering him up (got him to laugh once), pointing out something positive each time he mentioned something negative about himself, reminding him life is long and cyclic. I know he had had some wine tonight and had taken a Xanax to calm down. Now I'm wondering if he took a whole bottle. He suddenly told me to get some sleep and said goodbye and he's leaving the world. He quoted a Megadeath song in French and turned his phone off immediately. I honestly have no idea if he's drunk and being dramatic and fell asleep or if he has committed suicide from overdose.

    Update:
    I got in touch with his sister who went in his room and confirmed he's ok and sleeping. I'm exhausted.
    Do you think he was being emotionally manipulative?
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    Do you think he was being emotionally manipulative?
    Why are suicidal people so often seen as attention-seeking and emotionally manipulative? Does he have to commit suicide for his troubles to be taken seriously?
    I fucking hate the cold! - Wim Hof

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    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    Why are suicidal people so often seen as attention-seeking and emotionally manipulative? Does he have to commit suicide for his troubles to be taken seriously?
    So the answer to my question is no? I phrased it as a question so as not to presume.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    So the answer to my question is no? I phrased it as a question so as not to presume.
    I think you mistook me for kistune haha. Anyways I mean there seems to be a general trend to dismiss suicidal behaviour that doesn't end in actual suicide.
    I fucking hate the cold! - Wim Hof

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    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    I think you mistook me for kistune haha. Anyways I mean there seems to be a general trend to dismiss suicidal behaviour that doesn't end in actual suicide.
    It's easier. Healthy people can cope. They cope with the situation of suicidal ideation in others by dismissing them.

    This isn't to say that it isn't ever attention seeking--and given that humans are social creatures, and we can observe self-destructive behaviors in other social animals that aren't getting enough attention/socialization, it's not the worst hypothesis. But the follow up of dismissal, especially if the suicidal behavior actually is about a lack of social interaction is... unfortunate, but I get that too.

    Interacting with creatures operating on a severe social deficit is a drag.
    I don't know everything I know, let alone everything I don't.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    I think you mistook me for kistune haha.
    Yes, I did. Doh. Sorry. Derp

    In my defense I did make that post from my phone on 3g and the avatars weren't loading.
    Last edited by Sistamatic; 08-11-2015 at 04:30 AM.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  8. #8
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    Anyways I mean there seems to be a general trend to dismiss suicidal behaviour that doesn't end in actual suicide.
    That may be true, but I still think it is unbelievably cruel and insensitive to build up such an implication with all the dropped hints and metaphors, then to mention mixing xanex and alcohol, and then turn off your phone immediately. I don't know the whole story and don't want to presume, but based on the data presented, it isn't an unreasonable conclusion. It seemed as if the guy was being damned inconsiderate.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    That may be true, but I still think it is unbelievably cruel and insensitive to build up such an implication with all the dropped hints and metaphors, then to mention mixing xanex and alcohol, and then turn off your phone immediately. I don't know the whole story and don't want to presume, but based on the data presented, it isn't an unreasonable conclusion. It seemed as if the guy was being damned inconsiderate.
    Maybe as a neurotypical you should stick to compassion rather than making presumptions about a suicidal person's intentions. Seriously, these are textbook severe depression symptoms and it comes off as "inconsiderate" to you? If someone's on the cusp of suicide they don't need any more judgement. That kinda shit just might drive them over the edge.
    I fucking hate the cold! - Wim Hof

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Suicidal people are almost always taken to be manipulative and treated with scorn, which of course just reinforces their notions of worthlessness. It's a myth that if someone is serious, they won't mention it -- actually, it's the opposite. Most people who are suicidal don't really want to die, they desperately need help that they are too ill to obtain for themselves. Is is draining to hear? Yes. Upsetting? Yes. Annoying? Yes. Now, take all of that emotion you feel, multiply it 50 times, and you have what the suicidal person is feeling. Mood disorders -- and mental illness generally -- are a result of *brain dysfunction*. It's not a choice; these people don't choose to feel like shit, and, even if we are discussing a subset of suicidal types whose behavior is manipulative, they are still in pain. A malfunctioning brain is a medical problem -- this ridiculous notion that psychological problems are not medical problems is archaic.

    @kali is right, and kudos to@kistune for caring . A person pretty much has to complete a suicide before they're taken seriously. Or fail, and blow half their face off, something like that. One reason why so many depressed people don't carry through with it? The sheer lack of energy and the inability to think clearly enough to work out an effective plan. That's another reason for the pill overdoses (aka, manipulative suicidal gestures): desperation without effectively lethal methods at ready disposal.


    Any quick search will reveal a multitude of differences in the brains of depressed people (and other mentally ill people, as well).

    I think suicidal people often freak their friends out -- they aren't "crazy," they return to normal once their mood stabilizes. Severe depression can even cause paranoid psychosis that is temporary.


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