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Thread: Would you still work if you didn't have to?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Oh, people won't give you money, so you count them as unwilling to help?
    Yeah. What else should I base my count on? On things that I no longer need? What will the purpose of that will be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    You could always do a kickstarter or a gofundme or an indiegogo or whatever if all you need is money. I don't usually think of money as 'help'...I think of money as an alternative to help...like, if you can't do something real for me, you can give me some abstract thing that I can put towards achieving my ends another way.
    Nobody is willing to help. Not with money, or without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Also, if you're in need of money, are you unemployed? if so, how are you helping others?
    I am. And I do not need an employment. I don't help others. And they don't help me. I would help others if they help me. Doesn't happen. Then we are back in square one.

  2. #22
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entejay View Post
    Yeah. What else should I base my count on? On things that I no longer need? What will the purpose of that will be?
    We could discuss this in greater detail if you'd be explicit about what you need the money for.

    Nobody is willing to help. Not with money, or without it.

    I am. And I do not need an employment. I don't help others. And they don't help me. I would help others if they help me. Doesn't happen. Then we are back in square one.
    Taking the zero-sum approach to life definitely breeds these sorts of circumstances. There have been times when I've given disproportionately, for a long-ass time. There have also been times when I have received disproportionately. If I had been 'keeping score', my situation would probably have been more like yours. Also, the people you give to aren't always the people you get from. Returns might be part of a larger circle of deeds.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
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  3. #23
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entejay View Post
    I am. And I do not need an employment. I don't help others. And they don't help me. I would help others if they help me. Doesn't happen. Then we are back in square one.
    So um...if i may ask then...how do you survive/get by?

    To answer the "why help others" thing, well, many of us actually want to do something that we believe helps other people, or at least is more constructive than just working/consumerism. Its not really a "why", its a starting assumption/concern. What needs a "why" from our perspective is "why" you would not, or want to do something else equally/more pointless.

    The main reason we (I) don't, beyond relatively little things like helping out at a soup kitchen, donating clothing/furniture/bikes, is because doing so in any meaningful way requires time + capital.

    Now, I was not lucky enough to be born into a family with any capital (barring the capital of human intelligence/education), so most of my time currently goes into building it up for myself, both in terms of skills + financial inflows due to work: selling my labor. Of course, the people with capital value me doing something with my labor that I think it pretty pointless/worthless, but what are you going to do...shoulda been born to different parents. I guess I'll know that for next time...

  4. #24
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    I do get help from others, and plenty of it, and I'm very grateful for it. That gratitude carries into my work--but if I could live out my days comfortably without working anymore, I wouldn't bother with employment. I'd just spend my time staying occupied with things I enjoy, and possibly contributing some things of interest or entertainment from time to time.

    If you don't think you get help from others, you're deluding yourself. At the very least: you didn't build all the infrastructure you rely on on a daily basis and you sure as hell don't pay or produce enough to self fund it's maintenance and expansion.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

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  5. #25
    Tawaci ki a Gnaska ki Osito Polar's Avatar
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    Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be wonderful to be able to pour myself entirely into working on projects that are personally meaningful to me and that reflect my values. I mean, that's what I look for in work anyway but if I were able to self-finance everything I'd have total control.
    "I don't have psychological problems." --Madrigal

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    Six centuries ago, the pre-Colombian natives who settled here named this region with a word which in their language means "the Mouth of Shadow". Later, the Iroquois who showed up and inexplicably slaughtered every man, woman and child renamed it "Seriously, Fuck that Place". When French explorer Jacques Marquette passed through the area he marked his map with a drawing of a brownish blob emerging from between the Devil's buttocks.

  6. #26
    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Given a sudden windfall of total, perpetual financial independence, I suspect I would spend a good long while doing a whole lot of nothing, just to enjoy how it feels to not have anything I needed to worry about doing correctly/adequately and be able to pick how I would spend each successive minute of the day based on pure ephemeral whim.

    At some point, though (hard to say how long it would take), I would get bored and more or less compulsively seek out some sort of task to occupy myself. In all probability that would come in the form of noticing something that struck me as (in one sense or another) needing to get done but neither already getting done nor likely to get done by anyone else.

    I'm highly capable of getting wrapped up in frivolous pursuits. It's not that I'm an excessively "serious" or compulsively altruistic person.

    It's just that I don't seem to really have an "It would be nice if" or "I would like to" setting. My mind instinctively divides just about everything I could potentially spend any time or energy on into two categories:

    1. Things I am more or less unable to tolerate the thought of failing at or leaving undone

    2. Pointless bullshit that I'm not even going to try to do if it requires any non-trivial effort, because it doesn't genuinely deserve more than a thoroughly trivial amount of my time or energy

    When my life gets out of balance by having too much of 1 or 2 and not enough of the other, things have a way of jumping the boundary from one category to the other to compensate until a rough equilibrium is restored.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

  7. #27
    Member MoneyJungle's Avatar
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    I think all the work would go into the fortification of my compound and the maintenance of my entourage.

    Glimpses do ye seem to see of that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    We could discuss this in greater detail if you'd be explicit about what you need the money for.
    For business. I had a business idea. Let me tell you something interesting.

    These people from whom I was requesting financing...these people themselves were complaining that they cant come up with a business idea that will push them further. They do not grow. They do not develop. They are just become arrested in one point of development. Well, here's a solution. If you can't come up with a new idea, then ask someone else to do that for you. Or help others to become someone who can help you with your problems. If I had a running business, I would certainly come up with something that will push them forward. But they refused that.

    So, I ask you, who is helping here whom?

    You are telling me that people don't help me. WRONG! People don't help themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Taking the zero-sum approach to life definitely breeds these sorts of circumstances. There have been times when I've given disproportionately, for a long-ass time. There have also been times when I have received disproportionately. If I had been 'keeping score', my situation would probably have been more like yours. Also, the people you give to aren't always the people you get from. Returns might be part of a larger circle of deeds.
    Doesn't seem bother people around me either. If I am the only person who is pursuing the zero sum game, then why am I not seeing people around me offering their help? Hell, let alone helping me, they can't even help themselves. By helping me they help themselves. They can't even see that far. And you are talking about helping others? They can't help themselves, what can be even said about helping others_

    I think it is fair to leave them alone. We should focus and cultivate the kind of people who willing to extend themselves in order to get higher returns through cooperation. So far, the only people I came in contact with who cooperated to uplift themselves from misery with me...were my parents. They deserve helped. Because they are willing to help themselves. Others don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ACow View Post
    So um...if i may ask then...how do you survive/get by?
    My parents live with me. They have their incomes. Some pensions. Some business. My expenditures are inconsequential to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ACow View Post
    The main reason we (I) don't, beyond relatively little things like helping out at a soup kitchen, donating clothing/furniture/bikes, is because doing so in any meaningful way requires time + capital.
    No, not because of that.

    Coming up with a capital is actually very very easy. All depends on how organized masses are.

    Yes it is definitely difficult to come up with 10 000 dolars of capital (for example) if you are one person. But for 10 people to come up with 1000 dolars is more feasible isn't it? And if you say "what is the point?"...well if the business that runs with 1000 of yours returns you 100 bucks each month...then I ask you...which bank will return you that much money every month?

    Moreover, if you helped to build a business...that means that some of people like you no longer works for an employer.

    And even moreover, there is a big chance that the business that runs with your money will be able to provide you with capital to make you run your own business in the future.

    So I ask you, does that make any sense to you?

    Of course it does.

    The problem is not that people have no choice. Or no way out. The problem is that people are simply stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    If you don't think you get help from others, you're deluding yourself. At the very least: you didn't build all the infrastructure you rely on on a daily basis and you sure as hell don't pay or produce enough to self fund it's maintenance and expansion.
    And you think those who build that infrastructure and maintain it are doing it for me? From the bottom of their heart? They get paid for their work. Isn't that what they came for? Salary? Isn't that what they seek for? They are helping themselves. Not me.
    Last edited by Entejay; 11-15-2015 at 10:10 AM.

  9. #29
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    So what's your business idea, how much capital do you require, what are the expected time/returns and how did you come up with all previous figures, what experience do you have in the field, why do I need you in this, why are you coming to me, why should I trust you, and what's going to stop competition coming in and copying/trouncing us?

    PS. When I was younger, I thought business ideas were valuable. They are not. Answering my questions there are at least partly valuable...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACow View Post
    So what's your business idea, how much capital do you require, what are the expected time/returns and how did you come up with all previous figures, what experience do you have in the field, why do I need you in this, why are you coming to me, why should I trust you, and what's going to stop competition coming in and copying/trouncing us?

    PS. When I was younger, I thought business ideas were valuable. They are not. Answering my questions there are at least partly valuable...
    I wanted to bring new / used factory machinery. To build a factory / workshop with those machinery (if machinery wasn't sold individually). And if I can't sell the machinery, then I would run those machinery inside the factory and sell the stuff that machines make.

    I do not think that I require alot of capital. Probably btween 10 000 - 50 000 dolars.

    Returns depend on how business will progress. The returns will be probably similar to any factory.

    How did I come up with the figures? Well I researched the machinery market well enough. I was working in the company where I was importing that stuff.

    Why do you need me? You probably don't, if you know how its made.

    Why do I come to you? Because that's where money is.

    Why should you trust me? You shouldn't.

    What will stop competition come? Nothing. They come and go all the time. Besides, if they copied me already, changing my business will take me only few changes in machinery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    It's just that I don't seem to really have an "It would be nice if" or "I would like to" setting.
    Why do you think this is this way?
    Last edited by Entejay; 11-15-2015 at 11:27 AM.

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