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Thread: "Do as I say, not as I do" WTF?!

  1. #21
    Member Viktor's Avatar
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    How does everyone feel about the concept of greater privileges with greater responsibility?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    How does everyone feel about the concept of greater privileges with greater responsibility?
    I think reality usually dictates more the what of the privileges than the how many in relation to greater responsibility, but I may not be looking at your question the way you intended. Greater responsibility typically removes some privileges and adds others. In fact, in my experience it does more removing than adding. It's just that the added ones typically have more visibility, and are optional. You can chose to not have them to save face due to there visibility, which is something I struggle with. I tend to self sacrifice the shit out of myself as I get more responsibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by whatloveihave View Post
    I don't find you a potential threat to human society, you're not crazy. Feces.

  3. #23
    Member Viktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stigmatica View Post
    I think reality usually dictates more the what of the privileges than the how many in relation to greater responsibility, but I may not be looking at your question the way you intended. Greater responsibility typically removes some privileges and adds others. In fact, in my experience it does more removing than adding. It's just that the added ones typically have more visibility, and are optional. You can chose to not have them to save face due to there visibility, which is something I struggle with. I tend to self sacrifice the shit out of myself as I get more responsibilities.
    My question was pretty vague and open ended, so I appreciate any input. I've also experienced inverse privileges with more responsibility, particularly in the army: eating last, working longer/harder, last man out, etc. Looking back on my experiences, in conjunction with your reply, I see more instances of less privileges. In face, I also recall a general looking down upon leaders and managers who took privileges; even if they were the same privileges afforded to the "regular" people. I even struggle with it as a parent, when I take a privilege that my children don't get. However, staying up later to pay the bills hardly seems a privilege.

  4. #24
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    How does everyone feel about the concept of greater privileges with greater responsibility?
    In the context of a job, as Stiggy has answered it, I think the idea of greater privileges is a little twisted.

    First off, a job is about loss of privilege. Always. That's why they pay you: to compensate you for the loss of freedom. That pay can then be used to purchase your privileges outside of the workplace.

    In the model I'm going to propose, there are three main vectors for an increase of pay, which, if pay is the means to acquire privilege as I've proposed, would imply increased personal privilege in terms of privilege purchasing power.

    The first vector is mandate. If you are making minimum wage and minimum wage is increased you will be making more money--momentarily. In my experience, every increase in minimum wage causes an immediate increase in the cost of most goods and services, but that's a different can of worms.

    The second vector is by a simple raise, and a simple raise is just a means to try and retain your services. You have demonstrated certain skills and abilities, and therefore it would be a greater inconvenience to you to not compensate you as well as a competitor might. Inflation will erode the privilege purchasing power of your compensation, so compensation must at least keep abreast of that or risk you finding a better buyer. Likewise, if your skill and talent have considerable value, it behooves an employer to compensate you more for it, or someone else will.

    The third vector is responsibility. Greater responsibilities mean a greater burden and greater inconvenience. Failure to provide sufficient pay for such services will accelerate burnout or fed-up. In theory, greater responsibility will also entail greater power so as to execute those new responsibilities. Again, in theory, that power could be leveraged to provide privilege--but the scope of that privilege is going to limited to the workplace, and therefore all that privilege carries within it, a leash. Same is true of perks.

    "Perks" tend to center around relieving employees of the inconvenience of leaving work. They do this by either alleviating need to leave (showers, on-site food, on-site civil bureaucracy services like license renewal and tax payments (I think I've only ever seen this for government work--NSA perks are creepy), on site gyms), by facilitating taking work home with you (company phone, company laptop, telecommuting options), or by subtly adding costs to quitting (company car, company housing, clothing or food allowance, health insurance, pension terms).

    Of course, the best of those perks are pretty rare these days. Why provide a pension when you can make your employees make their own--and call it a benefit? Why provide health insurance when you can make your employees pay for their own--especially since they are now required by federal law to do so? Why provide anything when you can add to the inconvenience of leaving just by adding a "no compete" clause to their employment? But again, I digress.

    Greater responsibility carries no new privilege in and of itself, only greater inconvenience and loss of personal time, which is then, in theory, paid for, thus providing greater purchasing power to make your own privilege.

    The theory breaks down with the lowest but most common form of leadership: the lead.

    If you've ever heard the phrase, "Don't step in the leadership", it's mostly because of lead positions. Leads have all the responsibilities of a manager, but none of the power. They are accountable, but given very little in the way of tools to fix anything. And sometimes, sometimes they get paid a little more. From what I've seen, they're hourly employees with all the stress and time mandates of salaried employees. The best perk they have is they still get OT. Tough shit it's constant and mandatory.

    All I'm saying is, I've yet to meet a lead that was happy about it.

    I've even met people who were given all the responsibilities of being a lead, but they weren't given the title. For all intents and purposes of what they did and what was expected of them, they were leads, but they couldn't actually put that on their resume without risk of it being denied by HR later.

    Responsibility is never accompanied by equivalent privilege--if it's ever accompanied by privilege at all. The words are antonyms.
    For some, "how", not "why", is the fundamental unit of measure for curiosity. This divergence is neither parallel, nor straight. Where one might have a "why?-5" problem, it might only be a "how?-2" question. But then, there are also many things where the "why?" is immediately obvious but the "how?" is best measured in centuries of perpetual wonder. Both approaches have their drawbacks.

    If one is superior, the other is unaware of it.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

  5. #25
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    In my classroom, I am god and professor. I'm responsible for everything that happens. I have rules...rules about being late, rules about missing class, rules about missing exams, eating in the lab, etc. In those who are not in charge, the rules are upheld because the in-charge party can punish them by taking points away, etc. In my case, the rules are followed because I decide to follow them as an example. The difference isn't about what the person in charge can't do, but more about why they can't do it.

    I expect my students to come to class on time and to take the exams when they are scheduled. I am not ever late. In 11 years I've never been late for class. I fucking find a way. In 11 years, I've missed class 3 times, each for death in the family, and each time I spent the time and effort to adequately prepare a sub to make sure my students got the information and experience they needed. I have never failed to submit grades on time, nor have I ever failed to create and print the exams, or any of the other number of things I am required to do in order to give my students an opportunity to succeed. In contrast, often when a student misses an exam they don't even think to mention it...they just think I'm going to spend my time to come in and give them a makeup when it is convenient for them. They seem to think that if they have a difficult personal life, they should not be held to the same standards as their peers.

    Another thing about being the responsible party -- everyone under you expects you to take up the slack if they have a problem. In the margin of every page of every syllabus I have a watermark that says, "A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part," because otherwise everyone just assumes that part of my purpose is to provide a means of escaping the consequences of their inaction, forgetfulness, bad days, etc.

    I make a very very big deal about my students' personal responsibility for the express purpose of making them realize they are not getting any special privileges. So I echo the sentiments above in saying that greater responsibility, by it's very nature, makes one less privileged.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  6. #26
    Member Viktor's Avatar
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    @Sistamatic Wow, that's a pretty tight ship you run there. Encouraging to see. Your students will learn volumes past the subject matter you're teaching, and be that much better prepared for reality. They're lucky to have you.

  7. #27
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    @Sistamatic Wow, that's a pretty tight ship you run there. Encouraging to see. Your students will learn volumes past the subject matter you're teaching, and be that much better prepared for reality. They're lucky to have you.
    LOL, thanks. They don't feel lucky when I bring the hammer of NO down upon them, but they are. I'm not protecting my students from failure if I give them a pass, I'm only delaying the inevitable. If you can't pass BIO120 without extra bonus points, you are most definitely not ready for A&P, and me allowing them to pretend that isn't real is not me helping.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  8. #28
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by interprétation erronée View Post
    What makes hypocrisy wrong or right? Is it even a moral issue? Is it just lying and what's wrong with that? Does it weaken the hypocrites credibility? What does it say about the person being a hypocrite? Should this be in the psychology forum? Why is my schlong so big? If you respond to this thread you admire it.

    "Do as I say, not as I do"

    That's a line of advice I've utilised before.

    We are all hypocrites in some way or another, I respect those who own it.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  9. #29
    facta non verba interprétation erronée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post
    "Do as I say, not as I do"

    That's a line of advice I've utilised before.

    We are all hypocrites in some way or another, I respect those who own it.
    Yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Limes View Post
    Jan Bonclay
    “If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.” ― Malcolm X

  10. #30
    Member Karl Pilkington's Avatar
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    I am a God incarnate.

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