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Thread: S and T, N and F

  1. #1
    Merry Christmas Dot's Avatar
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    S and T, N and F

    I have trouble distinguishing feeling from intuition, and sensing from thinking.

    "I just feel that [blank] is the right answer" seems like it could be the product of either intuition or feeling.

    "Based only on evidence, I think that [blank] is the right answer" seems like it could be the product of either sensing or thinking.

    What am I missing?

    Based on this probable misconception, it seems like the T/F dichotomy is the least meaningful of the four, mostly because it seems to blur into N/S (or alternatively, N/S is the least meaningful because it blurs into T/F). I feel like I/E, N/S, and P/J could cover everything on their own.

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    In it to win it 99Problems's Avatar
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    I think maybe level of intelligence might be a factor in this, in a higher mental functioning person it may well be that T/F is less meaningful. In lower functioning the difference may appear more meaningful.

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    Member Hexchild's Avatar
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    You should probably avoid putting too much stock in the particular words chosen to name these functions.


    Here's how I understand them - but keep in mind I'm not really an expert on Jung or MBTI:

    S is concrete, detail-oriented and good at applying common sense, and seeks facts.
    N is abstract, pattern-oriented and good at finding obscure connections, and seeks possibilities and predictions.
    Both S and N are perceiving functions, which are used to experience what's going on in the world as well as in the mind.

    T is impersonal, detached, deductive and stoic, and strives for objectivity.
    F is personal, connected, guided by values and sensitive, and strives for harmony.
    Both T and F are judging functions, which are used to make sense of what we experience and construct an understanding of it.

  4. #4
    sane in insane places kali's Avatar
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    To distinguish them, look at the P/J distinction.

    PERCEIVING denotes your preference for the S/N distinction! That is, you prefer to observe your environment (using either sensing or intuiting) before making a decision (using either thinking or feeling decisions)..

    JUDGING denotes your preference for the T/F distinction. That is, you prefer to make a decision (using either feeling or thinking) before observing your environment (using sensing/intuiting).

    You can see that the two dichotomies are fundamentally different in the processes. S/N is how you view the world. T/F is how you react to the world.

    edit: yah what Hexchild said

  5. #5
    New Member Etherealsage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexchild View Post
    You should probably avoid putting too much stock in the particular words chosen to name these functions.


    Here's how I understand them - but keep in mind I'm not really an expert on Jung or MBTI:

    S is concrete, detail-oriented and good at applying common sense, and seeks facts.
    N is abstract, pattern-oriented and good at finding obscure connections, and seeks possibilities and predictions.
    Both S and N are perceiving functions, which are used to experience what's going on in the world as well as in the mind.

    T is impersonal, detached, deductive and stoic, and strives for objectivity.
    F is personal, connected, guided by values and sensitive, and strives for harmony.
    Both T and F are judging functions, which are used to make sense of what we experience and construct an understanding of it.
    For someone that falls outside the normal bell curve for how NF is, you can take a look at me. When I make arguments to another person, I argue a lot how someone would expect an NT to (given I have enough motivation/time to actually put effort into it). When I take in information and decide how to act, I tend to be guided by my principles, how it affects other people, and indeed strive for harmony. Although it should be noted that I am a fairly uncaring person unless it involves personal relationships I care about. Or if I happen to witness particularly disgusting acts, such as bullying.

  6. #6
    Merry Christmas Dot's Avatar
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    I don't quite understand but I can sense the sense of what you guys are saying. thanks, I'll think about this.

  7. #7
    sane in insane places kali's Avatar
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    what don't you understand? maybe stop sensing.

  8. #8
    Merry Christmas Dot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    what don't you understand?
    Do you always have to S or N first, and then proceed to T or F? I had this idea that everyone is using all four functions of their type all the time, simultaneously, but from these descriptions it seems like T/F and N/S are dependent on chronological order (T/F always has to follow after N/S-- you can't judge unless you have something to perceive first). So that's confusing to me-- it's as if certain parts of the personality get put on hold while other parts sort out data. I guess it works, but it just seems odd somehow, I guess because I feel like all four sets of letters should hold equal amounts of "power."

    maybe stop sensing.


    But I appreciate that you gave the murder threat a polite tone. Thank you.

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    The thing is that you can extract a lot of information from just a little perception, which might be what makes 'judging more often than perceiving' possible.
    Whereas Sensors are prone to being lost in physical activity like sports, Intuitives are prone to being lost in imagination, concepts and ideas.
    Hence Sensors gives more attention to sensory input or whatever, Intuitives more to their imagination/concepts/underlying stuff, and both types uses S/N unequally both in comparison to each other and to the "default scheme" of 25% x4

  10. #10
    Pull the strings! Architect's Avatar
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    It might help to try looking at it from the Functional standpoint. I.e., Se versus Ti for example. Extraverting sensing, isn't that clearly more an experiential activity (such as playing baseball) compared to Ti introverted thinking, which might be thought of as working quietly at a library or reading?

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