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Thread: Brexit - Britain leaving the European Union

  1. #1
    singularity precursor Limes's Avatar
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    Brexit - Britain leaving the European Union

    Opinions, thoughts, and observations on Britain's forthcoming vote to leave the European Union.

    I am firmly in the leave camp, having followed Nigel Farage and his UKIP party's contributions to the European Parliament.
    I'm of the opinion that it's a bureaucratic sham to remove the democracy from Europe and create and isolationist trading bloc which resembles a pyramid scheme as it constantly requires droves of unskilled labor to flood in, evidenced by Turkey's imminent membership. A marginally theocratic country that has 95% of its land mass in Asia and only 5% in Europe.

    I would especially welcome the opinions of people that think, or will vote for Britain to stay in.

    Great documentary:

    We live here now.

  2. #2
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    Y'all could apply for statehood.

  3. #3
    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    I don't think I should have a strong opinion about BrExit. Nor is it something I would worry much about, from a Global Security POV, due to Britain's geographical uniqueness vis-a-vis the rest of Europe. (An Island at the periphery)

    Whereas I would have to fret with trepidation if say the Germanic States, or the Slavic States, or even the old Romance Gaulish and Iberian States started to see the EU as more negative than positive.
    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

  4. #4
    Persona Oblongata OrionzRevenge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starla View Post
    Y'all could apply for statehood.

    Creativity is the residue of time wasted. ~ Albert Einstein

  5. #5
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    A Brexit could/would spell a serious disaster for the rest of the EU and thus, Austria, but seeing as I'd vote "GTFO" myself if we Austrians were ever asked that question, I really can't blame the British leavers.


  6. #6
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    Seems like it'd have a negative impact on the economy. Other than that, I couldn't care less. But seeing as how it's the only shit I do give, it's the only shit that counts.
    "Doesn't matter what a man has if he doesn't have purpose. You take that away from him, man usually goes with it." -Beau

  7. #7
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    I'd like to see the EU go to hell in a handbasket, so yeah.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

  8. #8
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    I'd leave, personally. Primarily because I see the EU as a kind of romantic experiment rather than a considered plan. I'd say subsequently that it's doomed to failure, because you can't have a long term monetary union without ceding local monetary and fiscal and political policy (which would be undemocratic on a local level) but I'm not going to pretend that I can see the changes that might happen to try to hold it together. The UK is obviously a bit special in that they kept their currency and have always been a little bit different from the main body of the EU.

    I won't be the least bit surprised if you stay though. Powerful interests want the EU.

    Frankly, Greece should of started this whole leave thing, but they chose denial and cowardice.

    Might be good for me as an Aussie. You kind of fucked us over relative to the rest of Europe in terms of your immigration laws...maybe you'd go back to favouring the Commonwealth if others scare you so much

  9. #9
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACow View Post
    Frankly, Greece should of started this whole leave thing, but they chose denial and cowardice.
    By Yanis Varoufakis

    Dear Britain,

    Last year I tried, and failed, to convince the EU top brass to behave humanely toward my long-suffering country. Now, I am writing to you with an odd plea: that you stay in this same EU – yes, the one that crushed our Athens spring and has been behaving abominably ever since.

    Some will deploy tabloid logic to explain my plea (“Varoufakis wants the UK to stay in to pay for Greece’s bailouts”). Others will accuse me of abandoning the fight for restoring democracy. Yet I trust that your Pythonesque appreciation of paradox will pierce through the seeming contradiction.

    The reason I want you to stay in is that voting to leave will not get you “out”. Rather than escaping the EU, Brexit will keep you tied to a Europe that is nastier, sadder and increasingly dangerous to itself, to you, indeed to the rest of the planet.

    The masters of the City will never allow a new Boris Johnson government to even think of leaving the EU’s single market, despite Michael Gove’s musings. Which means that all the gadgets sold in your shops will have to abide by standards made in Brussels, your environmental protection rules will be drawn up in Brussels, and market regulation will be (yes you guessed it) determined in Brussels.

    So, even after Brexit, the majority of your laws will be written in the same dreary Brussels corridors as now, except you will have no say in their shaping. With your democracy as truncated as it is now, you will remain stuck, albeit less powerful, in a Europe whose fragmentation Brexit will accelerate.

    The EU is undoubtedly bureaucratic, opaque and contemptuous of the parliamentarianism that you and I cherish. You may, therefore, conclude that speeding up the EU’s fragmentation is not such a bad idea. Think again! Will its disintegration cause progressive democrats to rise up across Europe, empower their parliaments, usher in the forces of light and hope, and foster harmonious cooperation on the continent? Not likely.

    The EU’s fragmentation will divide the continent in at least two parts, the major fault line running down the Rhine and across the Alps. In the north east, deflation will rule, with millions of working poor Germans, Poles and so on becoming unemployed. In the Latin part, the order of the day will be inflation with unemployment. Only political monsters will crawl out of this fault line, spreading xenophobic misanthropy everywhere and ensuring, through competitive devaluations, that you will also be drawn into the ensuing vortex.

    This is why I am pleading with you to stay in our terrible EU. Europe’s democrats need you. And you need us. Together we have a chance of reviving democratic sovereignty across Europe. It won’t be easy. But it is worth a try.

    When I was student, a close friend who hated parties nevertheless never missed one just so that he would have something to bitch about the day after. Please do not be like him. Please stay in the EU with enthusiasm for our common cause: to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them.
    I see his point but this is the same boogeyman that led him to capitulate to the troika and he's still at it. It's a shame when the most brilliant minds are restrained by cowardice, you feel so disenfranchised. You can't spend your whole life choosing the slow agony of the lesser evil with zero faith in people's abilities to rise above the only critical scenario that could bring about true change. In his book, the Global Minotaur, he destroys the EU as a US imperial creation. But when a decision has to be made he alleges that we're not ready to deal with the worst. People can never be ready for the worst. By definition that is what a crisis implies.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

  10. #10
    Mens bona regnum possidet ferrus's Avatar
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    Personally I couldn't care less, except I don't want to have to go through get more Spanish bureaucracy to get a work permit and the health checks etc. that being a non-EU citizen working in an EU country brings, so I'd rather they stay.

    That said I'm not spending money on a postal vote whose marginal utility is next to zero.

    One thing I have noticed is that Spain still makes it relatively easy for Latin Americans to immigrate to Spain on the basis of former imperial connections and heritage in spite of EU migration laws... and yet the UK has made it very difficult for the citizens of commonwealth countries - it strikes me the UK made a conscious decision to not seek ways around making it easier for these people.

    In general I don't buy the migration argument. The first-world uneducated unskilled work force will be fucked over whether or not businesses choose to produce over here with immigration work-force or over there and import it in. And what does it say about you if your job can be done better by an uneducated peasant from Poland? The kind of bottom feeding dip-shits affected by this for the most part were the sort who tried to ruin everyone's education at school and I don't really have the slightest bit of sympathy for their plight as opposed to my ability to work were I want with the skills I've got and minimal bureaucratic interference.
    Last edited by ferrus; 06-06-2016 at 10:37 PM.
    Die Logik ist keine Lehre, sondern ein Spiegelbild der Welt. Die Logik ist transcendental. - Wittgenstein

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