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Thread: Manipulation Identifying Responding and Using

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Manipulation Identifying Responding and Using

    Do you think you're good at recognizing when somebody is trying to manipulate you? Does manipulation work on you? Do you practice it too?

    I'm good at recognizing the crudest form of negative manipulation, guilting, such as the type where if I don't do what's wanted, it's deemed to be because of character deficiciencies, such as being selfish, uncaring, and lazy. As far as getting me to do what's desired, that's very counterproductive. Even if I were predisposed to do what was wanted beforehand, afterwards I'd be motivated to avoid rewarding the manipulation.

    Hmm, but what if the objective of the manipulation is not what it seems on it's face, or if there is an alternative successful outcome, then the manipulation is in a sense successful after all. If the manipulation can also confirm in the manipulator's mind that I'm a jerk and that she's a victim, then she gets that emotional payoff when she sees me acting in accordance with the negative qualities that she ascribes. That's a possible explanation of why she repeatedly uses manipulation that seems to repeatedly fail on its face. She either wins by guilting me to do want she wants, or gets the pyrrhic victory of having her emotional distortions confirmed in her my mind and reassuring herself that she's in the morally superior position of oppressed victim.

    I have more blind spots and I'm much more susceptible to positive manipulation (flattery and appeal to my goodness), particularly from attractive women. Either I don't recognize it as manipulation, or even if I do, it doesn't inspire the same degree of defensiveness against manipulation.

    I confess to occasionally using negative manipulation. Given how ineffective guilting is on me, I've been surprised on how effective it is on the practitioner discussed above. That's another possible explanation for her repeatedly using it, projecting its effectiveness.

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    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do you think you're good at recognizing when somebody is trying to manipulate you? Does manipulation work on you? Do you practice it too?
    I am extremely sensitive to attempts to get me to do something. I resent it if it's done in a sneaky way. If it's straightforward I'm ok. Whether it's sneaky or straighforward, I try to evaluate the request on its own merits and choose to act or not. Sometimes I'll play along just out of curiosity to confirm my suspicions.

    I similarly have historically gone out of my way to avoid manipulating people... I actively deny and destroy any dependency that they might develop towards me; although I have more recently come to think I'm doing myself and them a disservice by behaving this way... so I'm slowly growing out of it.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-O View Post
    I resent it if it's done in a sneaky way. If it's straightforward I'm ok. Whether it's sneaky or straighforward, I try to evaluate the request on its own merits and choose to act or not.
    Right, I'm fine with straightforward requests, like healthy adults communicate. Those will get full consideration on the merits.

    I resent presumptions of character deficiencies on my part for not doing what wasn't straightforwardly requested, or even directly suggested to me in other than in a poisonous way. For example, I've been in earshot of one end of a telephone conversation referencing me: "him? you think he would do X? *deep incredulous woe is me sigh*"

    I guess I'm supposed to want to redeem myself in her eyes. Such tactics inspire no such compulsion.

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    Elitist Hipster Snake Champion Grape Jelly's Avatar
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    I look for ulterior motives. If someones lying to you, they usually have motives for lying to you. Honest conversation usually doesn't require that. If there's an unusual note of persuasion behind a sentence to a persons favor, the persons probably manipulating you. I have a hard time conceiving that people lie. It boggles my mind sometimes.
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    fluctuating Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do you think you're good at recognizing when somebody is trying to manipulate you?
    yes, very much so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Does manipulation work on you?
    it makes things less likely to happen as the manipulator desires... i.e. i am better at guilting myself than an outsider could be, and react strongly against that particular tactic... i am tolerant of flattery, but it does put my on guard... i can think of other tactics, but i feel satisfied with my examples presently...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do you practice it too?
    i catch myself at it now and then... it tends to happen most often when i am mentally drained... after finding that i have behaved that way, i increase my vigilance against the behavior... my dad was very instructive (directly and indirectly) in how to handle these things...

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    i catch myself at it now and then... it tends to happen most often when i am mentally drained
    Me too. I'm naturally critical when I see illogical behavior and more acerbic in my criticisms when drained. I stumbled upon the manipulative effect of needling criticism.

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    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    I find myself somewhat oddly at a loss when I think about contributing to this topic.

    I don't know if no one tries to manipulate me, they do and it works so well I don't notice it, or they don't because I'm completely immune to it and they've given up.

    It seems somehow... irrelevant? Like, if someone is trying to get me to do something, how they go about it will give me information.

    (Then there's my whole relationship with the ISFJ, which is a topic unto itself.)

    I did once visit the Coca Cola factory/museum in Atlanta, and they have this huge immersive advertisement experience, and I was flummoxed by it. STOP MAKING ME FEEL THINGS. IT'S COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT AND I DON'T WANT TO BUY YOUR PRODUCT. *weeps at poignant film*



    ^ This wasn't even it. It was like a twenty minute feeling stimulation that you couldn't escape. ...Coca cola marketing is the work of the Devil.
    Too bad, Lady Une. You were far too lenient.
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    Member CitizenErased's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Do you think you're good at recognizing when somebody is trying to manipulate you? Does manipulation work on you? Do you practice it too?
    Yes, I am. Though I always do whatever I want, so it never works. In fact, if I was going to do something, and someone tells me to do it, I have a debate with myself whether I should do it or not. Speaking solely of manipulation, I ask so many questions regarding why I should/shouldn't do something, and why they're trying to manipulate me, and then tell them that, BECAUSE of manipulation, I'm not going to do what they want, that people tend to take back what they said, huff and conclude with an exhausted "nevermind" (I wonder if it's my sneaky way of counter-manipulation).

    So no, manipulation doesn't work on me, mostly because I feel there's no logical reason behind the demand, it's purely related to the manipulator's interest or partial, subjectve point of view. Having said that, negative manipulation (if you don't do this, X thing will happen/I will X/you won't X) tends to make me consider my options more than a positive manipulation, because with positive manipulation, I feel I'm doing the other a favour, and my mind says "haha, you need me; now, for trying to manipulate me, SUFFER!!"

    I don't think I practice manipulation (unless stating all the ways in which the option others choose is completely wrong and how mine makes waaay more sense, so they should choose mine IS manipulation). I do counter-manipulate when stressed and when someone tries to manipulate me in a negative way (parents mostly): "that manipulation is a threat, you're threatening me, and if you keep threating, I'll..." so then people say they are sorry and that it's not a threat and they let me do whatever I want. But only on those occasions.

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    I don't really care if someone is trying to manipulate me into doing something or not. If I think I'm better off doing it, I'll do it. If I think I'm worse off doing it, I won't. If it's a wash then it depends on how much I like that person, but then how much I like that person and how my doing or not doing what they're suggesting impacts them is something I would also take into consideration when determining if I'm better off doing it or not. The only time someone's motives, ulterior or not, matter is when I'm trying to evaluate the validity and/or importance of a piece of information they've given me.

    Everyone manipulates everyone else. People who are good at it convince you that you want to do the thing they want you to do. People who are bad at it try to get you to do said thing despite the fact that you don't want to do it at all. I strive to be the first type of manipulator.

    The best and easiest manipulation tactic out there is to be nice to people and act like you like them. People like people who are nice to them and people who like them. People are more likely to do things for people they like.

  10. #10
    fluctuating Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starla View Post
    I don't really care if someone is trying to manipulate me into doing something or not. If I think I'm better off doing it, I'll do it. If I think I'm worse off doing it, I won't. If it's a wash then it depends on how much I like that person, but then how much I like that person and how my doing or not doing what they're suggesting impacts them is something I would also take into consideration when determining if I'm better off doing it or not. The only time someone's motives, ulterior or not, matter is when I'm trying to evaluate the validity and/or importance of a piece of information they've given me.

    Everyone manipulates everyone else. People who are good at it convince you that you want to do the thing they want you to do. People who are bad at it try to get you to do said thing despite the fact that you don't want to do it at all. I strive to be the first type of manipulator.

    The best and easiest manipulation tactic out there is to be nice to people and act like you like them. People like people who are nice to them and people who like them. People are more likely to do things for people they like.
    it makes sense to feel that way...

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