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  1. #1
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    Genetic Testing..

    I ordered the 23andme kit. I was originally going to get my full genome sequenced, but I can't afford that at this time. I was then going to wait, but the situation is urgent enough that I need to do something now. So, I'm going with the 23andme kit until I'm working again (and making money) and am able to afford something more comprehensive. I know many SNPs don't have any research associated with them, but the idea is to get the entire thing done once, such that I can continually refer back to it as time goes by.

    Has anyone gotten genetic testing done? What were your results? Were any predispositions discovered? Which? Have you tried uploading the raw data to prometheus, genetic genie, or some other site? Are there other sites/tools out there that I'm not aware of? Where's the best place to get my full genome sequenced (such that I know it's entirely done (+ brain + mitochondria + etc) after spending that massive amount of money, and that I'll never have to do it again)?

  2. #2
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    Wut is ur urgent situation? And yea there's not a lot of research, this is a new frontier. Mine confirmed food intolerances relating to SNPs but not to the specific problems I was having, it's one piece of the puzzle.

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    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIOTCH View Post
    Wut is ur urgent situation? And yea there's not a lot of research, this is a new frontier. Mine confirmed food intolerances relating to SNPs but not to the specific problems I was having, it's one piece of the puzzle.
    One piece of the puzzle is an apt way of putting it.

    To expand on your point:

    Even if you had your entire genome sequenced and reviewed by the world's foremost experts, it would tell you very little that would not have to be verified by a physical exam. There are precious few alleles that act in a clear cut and binary manner, and the expression of your genetic material is affected by the environment in which the genes are expressed, and that environment includes the rest of your own genome, an environment which is utterly unique to you and which is therefore an untested circumstance for each and every one of your genes, and is, in fact, an environment for which it is very difficult to have unbiased and controlled tests. This is why personal physicians must be great detectives.

    You could, for example, determine via genetic sequencing that you are somewhat more likely than other members of the population to have an irritable bowel, or that you are a few percentage points more likely to express the symptoms attributed to celiac's disease when you consume gluten, or that you have a 64% chance of having brown eyes, or that you are very likely to have a certain blood type. While that is all incredibly fascinating (I do enjoy pouring over my 23 and me results) you will still get better information about what traits you have by observing them, either in a mirror or via diagnostic tests.

    The value of these genetic tests lies not in the data given to the individuals, but in the aggregation of many individuals' data in the hands of scientists that can be used to determine the root causes of diseases and in turn to develop treatments, all of which in the hands of a medical professional can be used to fill in more of an individual's diagnostic puzzle along with that individual's personal genetic data, but it is important that one does not lose sight of the fact that a genetic proclivity is not a smoking gun and that almost every symptom imaginable has a google of possible causes, none of which can be ruled out merely by a genetic proclivity in another direction.

    *provided that you do not have an identical twin, and even then, the environment in which the once identical genomes express themselves differs from the moment the zygote separates and therefore cannot be expected to give rise to the same traits. In fact, in some cases, the presence of a twin can cause an allele to express in an opposite manner to what it would have if a twin had been absent. For example, the hand clasping gene. Often identical twins will express opposite traits in spite of having the same allele configuration because the signal that causes the hand to develop in such a way that a particular thumb is on top when your hands are clasped is believed to be caused by an early body patterning signal that is directional, and therefore expresses oppositely in two developing embryos that are adjacent. This early opposite body patterning signaling can be so extreme in some cases that twins can have their entire internal viscera develop as mirror images of one another resulting in one twin having the condition situs reversis. The whole thing confounds the hell out of the statistics in identical twins studies involving any trait that has any origin in any early embryonic signal that is directional in nature, and it isn't as if there is a list of what those traits are. Point being, even a slight environmental difference can have a profound effect on gene expression.
    Last edited by Sistamatic; 09-05-2016 at 04:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    One piece of the puzzle is an apt way of putting it.

    To expand on your point:

    Even if you had your entire genome sequenced and reviewed by the world's foremost experts, it would tell you very little that would not have to be verified by a physical exam. There are precious few alleles that act in a clear cut and binary manner, and the expression of your genetic material is affected by the environment in which the genes are expressed, and that environment includes the rest of your own genome, an environment which is utterly unique to you and which is therefore an untested circumstance for each and every one of your genes, and is, in fact, an environment for which it is very difficult to have unbiased and controlled tests. This is why personal physicians must be great detectives.

    You could, for example, determine via genetic sequencing that you are somewhat more likely than other members of the population to have an irritable bowel, or that you are a few percentage points more likely to express the symptoms attributed to celiac's disease when you consume gluten, or that you have a 64% chance of having brown eyes, or that you are very likely to have a certain blood type. While that is all incredibly fascinating (I do enjoy pouring over my 23 and me results) you will still get better information about what traits you have by observing them, either in a mirror or via diagnostic tests.

    The value of these genetic tests lies not in the data given to the individuals, but in the aggregation of many individuals' data in the hands of scientists that can be used to determine the root causes of diseases and in turn to develop treatments, all of which in the hands of a medical professional can be used to fill in more of an individual's diagnostic puzzle along with that individual's personal genetic data, but it is important that one does not lose sight of the fact that a genetic proclivity is not a smoking gun and that almost every symptom imaginable has a google of possible causes, none of which can be ruled out merely by a genetic proclivity in another direction.

    *provided that you do not have an identical twin, and even then, the environment in which the once identical genomes express themselves differs from the moment the zygote separates and therefore cannot be expected to give rise to the same traits. In fact, in some cases, the presence of a twin can cause an allele to express in an opposite manner to what it would have if a twin had been absent. For example, the hand clasping gene. Often identical twins will express opposite traits in spite of having the same allele configuration because the signal that causes the hand to develop in such a way that a particular thumb is on top when your hands are clasped is believed to be caused by an early body patterning signal that is directional, and therefore expresses oppositely in two developing embryos that are adjacent. This early opposite body patterning signaling can be so extreme in some cases that twins can have their entire internal viscera develop as mirror images of one another resulting in one twin having the condition situs reversis. The whole thing confounds the hell out of the statistics in identical twins studies involving any trait that has any origin in any early embryonic signal that is directional in nature, and it isn't as if there is a list of what those traits are. Point being, even a slight environmental difference can have a profound effect on gene expression.
    Well, I don't need black and white absolute yes/no indicators. I just need hunches, leads, good theories, suggestions, etc. I think genetic testing, hair sample analysis, and blood testing will be provide good information to help me try to "figure it all out." Unless the genetic results end up being correlated to or suggestive of nothing.

    It would also be good to have the sequencing out of the way, such that when new research/findings are shared, I can just look up my "sequence" to see what it implies for me. Also, it allows me to do research of my own (maybe) or to potentially make better decisions about what routes to take, supplements to try out, etc. For example, I'm wondering which COMT polymorphism I have (Val/Val, Val/Met, or Met/Met). If I can figure this out, then it would strongly suggest if I should look into amphetamine salts, modafinil, etc, or if they'll likely be a waste of time. It will also suggest how I should take them to maximize their effects and the chances they'll have an effect. I'm also wondering if I have (over/under) methylation issues or a predisposition to pyroluria (extra pyrroles from hemoglobin synthesis that (are harmless but) bind to vitamin B6 and zinc, resulting in a deficiency of both). Some of these things I can somewhat infer based on symptoms, but it's gotten to the point that I want explicit polymorphisms/sequences/whatever in front of me, such that I can see WTF is going on. Too much guessing, too many things in the air, and after realizing I had a magnesium deficiency, I'm now trying to find blanket/general approaches to see if there are other issues I'm not aware of. I could've gotten a test for vitamin B6 levels (and zinc), but for some reason, I can't find them on the lab form at the doctor's office. It's extremely infuriating not to be able to just have my levels (accurately) checked all around, but I just keep going.

    I'm also curious about my ethnic heritage (I'm black, but as my mother's father seemed to be a mixture of things, I'm curious to find out what that is), and if I have any "special" genes (the positive ones).

  5. #5
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    Well, I don't need black and white absolute yes/no indicators. I just need hunches, leads, good theories, suggestions, etc. I think genetic testing, hair sample analysis, and blood testing will be provide good information to help me try to "figure it all out." Unless the genetic results end up being correlated to or suggestive of nothing.

    It would also be good to have the sequencing out of the way, such that when new research/findings are shared, I can just look up my "sequence" to see what it implies for me. Also, it allows me to do research of my own (maybe) or to potentially make better decisions about what routes to take, supplements to try out, etc. For example, I'm wondering which COMT polymorphism I have (Val/Val, Val/Met, or Met/Met). If I can figure this out, then it would strongly suggest if I should look into amphetamine salts, modafinil, etc, or if they'll likely be a waste of time. It will also suggest how I should take them to maximize their effects and the chances they'll have an effect. I'm also wondering if I have (over/under) methylation issues or a predisposition to pyroluria (extra pyrroles from hemoglobin synthesis that (are harmless but) bind to vitamin B6 and zinc, resulting in a deficiency of both). Some of these things I can somewhat infer based on symptoms, but it's gotten to the point that I want explicit polymorphisms/sequences/whatever in front of me, such that I can see WTF is going on. Too much guessing, too many things in the air, and after realizing I had a magnesium deficiency, I'm now trying to find blanket/general approaches to see if there are other issues I'm not aware of. I could've gotten a test for vitamin B6 levels (and zinc), but for some reason, I can't find them on the lab form at the doctor's office. It's extremely infuriating not to be able to just have my levels (accurately) checked all around, but I just keep going.

    I'm also curious about my ethnic heritage (I'm black, but as my mother's father seemed to be a mixture of things, I'm curious to find out what that is), and if I have any "special" genes (the positive ones).
    You must use the browse raw data feature in 23 and me to see these sorts of things, which means you must know what you are looking for in order to find it.

    If you decide to do 23 and me, just put rs4680 into your "browse raw data" search and you'll get your snp. (Assuming you are talking about variations of codon 158 in the COMT gene...which has other codons that can also vary.) Note how the following article and any other peer reviewed article on the subject uses "may" to equivocate almost every single statement it makes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...?dopt=Abstract).

    I'm G/G, which codes for Val/Val.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    You must use the browse raw data feature in 23 and me to see these sorts of things, which means you must know what you are looking for in order to find it.

    If you decide to do 23 and me, just put rs4680 into your "browse raw data" search and you'll get your snp. (Assuming you are talking about variations of codon 158 in the COMT gene...which has other codons that can also vary.) Note how the following article and any other peer reviewed article on the subject uses "may" to equivocate almost every single statement it makes. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...?dopt=Abstract).

    I'm G/G, which codes for Val/Val.
    Yes, I know I have to know what I'm looking for, but I plan on learning and also on uploading the data to sites like http://geneticgenie.org/ and Promethease.

    It's good you know you have the Val/Val COMT polymorphism! That strongly suggests you should avoid Marijuana (as it's more likely to cause psychosis, paranoia, hearing voices, etc), and that you may be more prone to addiction and mental illness. It also points to a deficient dopamine production system (the main reason I want to know which I am) that is the prime example of what amphetamine salts (like Adderall) are about treating. That is, your IQ and motivation levels will significantly/noticeably benefit from enhancing dopamine levels. You should have a good amount of tolerance, as you're restoring/normalizing dopamine levels, rather than trying to raise them past what they'd typically be. That is, I strongly recommend you look into Modafinil, Nuvigil, or Adrafinil, the over the counter version! It's as though that product was made for people like you.

    You can upload your raw data to https://promethease.com/ (other resources: https://www.snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia -- what are your results for the more popular SNPs?) to see if it can uncover any other similar insights/recommendations. Maybe it will help you more intelligently choose what to supplement with, to realize benefits you hadn't thought of (or thought possible).

    For one, I'm very curious now (especially as you're an INTP) how well you'll respond to dopamine enhancers. You can read more about the Val/Val genotype and dopamine here: https://selfhacked.com/2014/12/24/wo...mt-v158m-gene/

    (It also biases you toward being better with languages than math, to having increased verbal fluidity (if female; decreased if male), to having poorer functioning working memory, a higher tolerance for pain, more difficulty ignoring outside stimulus/distractions when trying to concentrate, more easily hypnotized (would benefit from brainwave entrainment with a program like Neuro-Programmer 3), etc).

    Here's my beginner stack recommendation (if you don't want to get Modafinil, Nuvigil, or Adrafinil (the non-prescription precursor)):

    - 75mg PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide
    - 15-30mg Fasoracetam
    - 1-2g Acetyl L-Carnitine
    - N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine
    - 500mg Centrophenoxine
    - 2g Fish Oil
    - TheaCrine (or regular caffeine if too expensive)

    You would only be able to take that combo once or twice per week (to avoid tolerance), but when you do take it, you should notice significant positive improvements in many areas (Val/Val leaves you practically screaming to be fed with this stuff).
    Last edited by baccheion; 09-05-2016 at 06:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member BarIII's Avatar
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    I want to have this done eventually. I think they'll eventually be looking for volunteers and it will be free. I put this in my notes about a year ago:

    keywords: genetic, gene, study, medical

    http://acd.od.nih.gov/reports/DRAFT-...1-2015-508.pdf

    page 37:
    "Direct volunteers could be recruited through a number of technologies, such as internet, social media, and mobile technologies. See Section 4 for Participant Engagement recommendations."

  8. #8
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    My grandparents are like a patchwork of British flags, with England, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Scotland represented.
    It would be interesting to see whose genes won majority in the genetic battlefield that was my creation. I don't think it's England's, my dad and his dad were both 5'5" and shared a lot of traits, for starters.

    If I were black, I would be interested in which part of Africa, apparently that's the biggest use the tech has so far, just pinpointing groups with whom you share the most traits. I wonder about the algorithm they're using, if it's selective, cherry picked data, or empirically alleles from one locale.

    Sometimes, in Atlanta, you can actually see those genes, like girls with really long shins and rounded bubble butts, like the girls that Leni Riefenstahl photographed, ah yes, the Nuba. Sometimes you might see this Nuba girl, <David Attenborough> gracefully making her way down the terminal, having stalked the newly arriving passengers for predators. Her walk has been selected by predation and natural selection in defense of predators</DA> and her buttocks have a 40 year, sag free, guarantee.

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    I just realized this does explain my nose and especially my mouth. The mouth is weird.

    I thought about this a bit more. Being a "Melungeon" in any way is basically considered as "Human feces, in part." I've heard the jokes. It's so ridiculous. Just combine Appalachian VA, Sub-Saharan African, Native American, and a family cluster that goes back to the 1600's or 1700's

    My dad's entire family lived in two or three counties in NC since the 1600's. Oh my. Outcross, stat!

    My maternal grandmother was technically a "Melungeon" (an ugly word ). I knew we had a tiny percentage of Sub-Saharan African ancestry on her side, but I recently found out that there's a bit of Native American too. So, the trifecta is complete. I am mixed race and very inbred on my maternal grandmother's side. My maternal grandfather was Irish and German.

    My aunt showed me which test it was, but I've forgotten.

    The maternal grandmother breakdown was funny.

    I don't remember the order, but it was something like this:

    Northern European
    UK and British Isles
    French
    German
    Eastern European ?
    Finland
    Italian
    Sub-Sarahan
    Native American (Cherokee, I assume)



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melungeon

    Melungeon (/məˈlʌndʒən/ mə-lun-jən) is a term traditionally applied to one of numerous "tri-racial isolate" groups of the Southeastern United States. Historically, Melungeons were associated with the Cumberland Gap area of central Appalachia, which includes portions of East Tennessee, Southwest Virginia, and eastern Kentucky. Tri-racial describes populations thought to be of mixed European, African and Native American ancestry. Although there is no consensus on how many such groups exist, estimates range as high as 200.[1][2] Melungeons were often referred to by other settlers as of Portuguese or Native American origin.

    [...]

    The term Melungeon was traditionally considered an insult, a label applied to Appalachian whites who were by appearance or reputation of mixed-race ancestry, though who were not clearly either "black" or "Indian". In southwest Virginia, the term Ramp was similarly applied to people of mixed race. This term has never shed its pejorative character.[38] In December 1943, Virginia State Registrar of Vital Statistics, Walter Ashby Plecker, sent county officials a letter warning against "colored" families trying to pass as "white" or "Indian" in violation of the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 and mentioned by county specific surnames, including: "Lee, Smyth and Wise: Collins, Gibson, (Gipson), Moore, Goins, Ramsey, Delph, Bunch, Freeman, Mise, Barlow, Bolden (Bolin), Mullins, Hawkins (chiefly Tennessee Melungeons)".[39] (Lee County, Virginia borders Hancock County, Tennessee.)

    According to the principle of partus sequitur ventrem, which Virginia incorporated into law in 1662, children were assigned the social status and ethnicity of their mother, regardless of their father's ethnicity or citizenship. This meant the children of African slave mothers were born into slavery. But it also meant the children of free white or mulatto women, even if fathered by enslaved African men, were born free. The free descendants of such unions formed many of the oldest free families of color. Early colonial Virginia was very much a "melting pot" of peoples, and some of these early multiracial families were ancestors of the later Melungeons. Each family line has to be traced separately. Over the generations, most individuals of the group called Melungeon were actually people of European and African descent, whose ancestors had been free in colonial Virginia.[8]

    Edward Price's dissertation on "Mixed-Blood Populations of the Eastern United States as to Origins, Localizations, and Persistence" stated that children of European and free black unions had intermarried with persons of Native American ancestry. These conclusions have been largely upheld in subsequent scholarly and genealogical studies. In 1894, the U.S. Department of the Interior, in its "Report of Indians Taxed and Not Taxed," noted that the Melungeons in Hawkins County "claim to be Cherokee of mixed blood".[3] The term Melungeon has since sometimes been applied as a catch-all phrase for a number of groups of mixed-race ancestry. In 2012, the genealogist Roberta Estes and her fellow researchers reported that the Melungeon lines likely originated in the unions of black and white indentured servants living in Virginia in the mid-1600s before slavery became widespread.[5] They concluded that as laws were put in place to prevent the mixing of races, the family groups could only intermarry with each other. They migrated together from western Virginia through the Piedmont frontier of North Carolina, before settling primarily in the mountains of East Tennessee.[10]
    Dad was mostly English, with some French and Irish



    And I just realized that my heritage makes me a target for jokes. In so many ways. I look European. My mom does as well, but she has aqua blue eyes and olive skin. Dad was as white as a sheet.
    Last edited by Lurker; 09-05-2016 at 07:37 AM.


  10. #10
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    I've intended on getting dna tested primarily for the reason, that I'm into genealogy. As a tool for genealogists, it doesn't normally say much more than what you would already know about your family origins (but even this can't explain greater uncertainty, than speculation.) I've also considered using promethease, as it can help to learn a lot about genetics and it's influences.

    The main reason for genealogy? Originally I had no clue other than hearsay "royalty" due to the surname, without even the slightest background as to how this is so. Most of what I've discovered is from studying up on records available online, in order to corroborate the "background" that exists on these people, determining a certain likelihood of some possibility; that the nearest record exists from the mid 1800s, of a farmer whom was relatively poor compared to his contemporaries (owning a farm valued at $600-900 over a 10 year period, compared to others owning a couple thousand) and that one of the sons owned a general store, before it became torn down due to railroad construction.

    What pisses me off the most is that we are supposed to have some mythical document or Bible with genealogy (going back a ways), but I get the sneaking suspicion that alzhiemers or perpetually shitting memory, and lack of focus, plagues my family.) Interestingly enough I did communicate with a 'Baronet' Parr (whether or not he is a real Baronet, he claims to trace his family back to a Lord Thomas Parr that was required to buy a Barony during King James I reign due to collection of taxes he wanted at the time. You can inherit these titles, but even if you have legitimate claim to them, you still have to petition the crown, and I believe this can cost upwards of a Million dollars (whether this is to have the crown create the title, I suspect it still requires a historic precedent.) I suspect at the time he communicated with me, he was a bit drunk; divulging that he had opened a bottle of wine he owned on his property from the late 1700 (though he did not describe it's properties, and I wonder if he was bullshitting.) He also talked about 'Lord Cavendish' coming to visit him, as he was moving over to Luxembourg. He may have been the real deal but for whatever reason it seems that some of the enquiry posed to him and his tendency to speculate and not know, made him uncomfortable to make a comprehensive understanding of the genealogy. All I was told is that one of his family members had traveled to the state of Virginia in the late 1700s, and that family members resided their that had inherited what were sizeable amounts of money in the mid 1900s upon the death of this Baronet's father, when they discovered ownership of properties and historically owned fortunes, that the Crown had to step in and divy up (apparently back in the middle ages, people could own a heck of a lot of stuff.)

    The people that I've found to be connected to this family I've traced to seem to not have much more information. I've speculated a connection to the Revolutionary War, where someone joined the Maryland 400 and apparently survived throughout much of the battles, only to be labeled a deserter (though I genuinely believe that the historian claiming this mistook him with someone else right near his name on a list; as a Captain Parr shows up still, and he was being promoted at the time, in charge of a company.) I've also wondered if maybe he was hiding early on and escaped death, with no one left to accuse him of it. . . The thing that connects this possibility is that later on, a woman that was part of a Moravian Community/Commune, and ended up in Virginia to stay with a 'Britt' family, ends up marrying to what I speculate could be a link; however the one person I assumed could have been an authenticated possibility to the name, married and may have been born in Virginia around the time of the 1800s. Many old cities are common places for people to move to and from, especially places circling Washington D.C. For awhile the speculation that the Parr surname might have arrived from Germany or elsewhere has been speculated, though even if it wasn't I still couldn't pinpoint a lot of info on it.

    Genetics is far more diverse, and you may have very little actual genetics connecting you to an ancestor several generations ago.

    Here is my genealogy I've collected

    It seems as if the vast majority that study up on the surname, have very little to actually show for it. Another thing I'm noticing (and it's pissing me off) is that a certain name can and does change over time. Because of this people will oftentimes believe they are connected to all kinds of random things; notably is a person taking the Rothenhauser name and thinking that it was 'Wroughton,' and furthermore changes to Roden; specifically Lord of Roden (from Ireland I believe; but even at this time a Lord Roden--which isn't a surname--didn't exist until a century later.) Wroughton is likely the name of an indentured servant that payed his way as an original settler, and likely was poor. Most people that are poor can take several centuries of their family to escape it. Is it possible that someone spoiled on wealth and acting frivolous with it, would stoop to such lows, as to never escape it? If they went onto a ship to America to bang some poor woman, are they likely to return back and ask for money?

    Interestingly enough the Marquis William Parr that was very privileged during Henry VIII reign, was practically dirt poor; Queen Elizabeth paid for him to attend Cambridge late in life, and also paid for his burial in an Abbey. Though I assumed his children from his first wife didn't keep their name (as he divorced her and they were declared "bastards," though this basically meant that they couldn't inherit his titles, which is why they were forfeited upon his death,) though their family also survive into the mid 1600s, though no further has been found out about. I asked the Baronet about these people and he seemed a little pissed off that I was still talking to him ("thank you for informing me about my family," though then several days later came back and started talking about the origins of the family, and how we likely came from Templars that were escaping the wrath of the Kings of Europe, and so might have changed the name from Le Roy.)

    I might go and play Assassins Creed. . .
    Last edited by Catoptric; 09-05-2016 at 11:22 PM.

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