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Thread: Genetic Testing..

  1. #11
    Gassy ~ A 'torm is brew'n Catoptric's Avatar
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    I've intended on getting dna tested primarily for the reason, that I'm into genealogy. As a tool for genealogists, it doesn't normally say much more than what you would already know about your family origins (but even this can't explain greater uncertainty, than speculation.) I've also considered using promethease, as it can help to learn a lot about genetics and it's influences.

    The main reason for genealogy? Originally I had no clue other than hearsay "royalty" due to the surname, without even the slightest background as to how this is so. Most of what I've discovered is from studying up on records available online, in order to corroborate the "background" that exists on these people, determining a certain likelihood of some possibility; that the nearest record exists from the mid 1800s, of a farmer whom was relatively poor compared to his contemporaries (owning a farm valued at $600-900 over a 10 year period, compared to others owning a couple thousand) and that one of the sons owned a general store, before it became torn down due to railroad construction.

    What pisses me off the most is that we are supposed to have some mythical document or Bible with genealogy (going back a ways), but I get the sneaking suspicion that alzhiemers or perpetually shitting memory, and lack of focus, plagues my family.) Interestingly enough I did communicate with a 'Baronet' Parr (whether or not he is a real Baronet, he claims to trace his family back to a Lord Thomas Parr that was required to buy a Barony during King James I reign due to collection of taxes he wanted at the time. You can inherit these titles, but even if you have legitimate claim to them, you still have to petition the crown, and I believe this can cost upwards of a Million dollars (whether this is to have the crown create the title, I suspect it still requires a historic precedent.) I suspect at the time he communicated with me, he was a bit drunk; divulging that he had opened a bottle of wine he owned on his property from the late 1700 (though he did not describe it's properties, and I wonder if he was bullshitting.) He also talked about 'Lord Cavendish' coming to visit him, as he was moving over to Luxembourg. He may have been the real deal but for whatever reason it seems that some of the enquiry posed to him and his tendency to speculate and not know, made him uncomfortable to make a comprehensive understanding of the genealogy. All I was told is that one of his family members had traveled to the state of Virginia in the late 1700s, and that family members resided their that had inherited what were sizeable amounts of money in the mid 1900s upon the death of this Baronet's father, when they discovered ownership of properties and historically owned fortunes, that the Crown had to step in and divy up (apparently back in the middle ages, people could own a heck of a lot of stuff.)

    The people that I've found to be connected to this family I've traced to seem to not have much more information. I've speculated a connection to the Revolutionary War, where someone joined the Maryland 400 and apparently survived throughout much of the battles, only to be labeled a deserter (though I genuinely believe that the historian claiming this mistook him with someone else right near his name on a list; as a Captain Parr shows up still, and he was being promoted at the time, in charge of a company.) I've also wondered if maybe he was hiding early on and escaped death, with no one left to accuse him of it. . . The thing that connects this possibility is that later on, a woman that was part of a Moravian Community/Commune, and ended up in Virginia to stay with a 'Britt' family, ends up marrying to what I speculate could be a link; however the one person I assumed could have been an authenticated possibility to the name, married and may have been born in Virginia around the time of the 1800s. Many old cities are common places for people to move to and from, especially places circling Washington D.C. For awhile the speculation that the Parr surname might have arrived from Germany or elsewhere has been speculated, though even if it wasn't I still couldn't pinpoint a lot of info on it.

    Genetics is far more diverse, and you may have very little actual genetics connecting you to an ancestor several generations ago.

    Here is my genealogy I've collected

    It seems as if the vast majority that study up on the surname, have very little to actually show for it. Another thing I'm noticing (and it's pissing me off) is that a certain name can and does change over time. Because of this people will oftentimes believe they are connected to all kinds of random things; notably is a person taking the Rothenhauser name and thinking that it was 'Wroughton,' and furthermore changes to Roden; specifically Lord of Roden (from Ireland I believe; but even at this time a Lord Roden--which isn't a surname--didn't exist until a century later.) Wroughton is likely the name of an indentured servant that payed his way as an original settler, and likely was poor. Most people that are poor can take several centuries of their family to escape it. Is it possible that someone spoiled on wealth and acting frivolous with it, would stoop to such lows, as to never escape it? If they went onto a ship to America to bang some poor woman, are they likely to return back and ask for money?

    Interestingly enough the Marquis William Parr that was very privileged during Henry VIII reign, was practically dirt poor; Queen Elizabeth paid for him to attend Cambridge late in life, and also paid for his burial in an Abbey. Though I assumed his children from his first wife didn't keep their name (as he divorced her and they were declared "bastards," though this basically meant that they couldn't inherit his titles, which is why they were forfeited upon his death,) though their family also survive into the mid 1600s, though no further has been found out about. I asked the Baronet about these people and he seemed a little pissed off that I was still talking to him ("thank you for informing me about my family," though then several days later came back and started talking about the origins of the family, and how we likely came from Templars that were escaping the wrath of the Kings of Europe, and so might have changed the name from Le Roy.)

    I might go and play Assassins Creed. . .
    Last edited by Catoptric; 09-05-2016 at 11:22 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    I can see that you are very excited about my genotype, so I almost feel bad that I don't share your enthusiasm. Thing is, I don't want to change. I've got my whole world arranged to work for the person I already am. What if these drugs do everything you say they will? I don't want to turn into some kind of ultra efficient ambitious go getter, and while nothing would make my mother in law happier, I think my husband would probably miss the old me. I want to ride my bike and dream and tell stories and play in the sand and figure out how things work, and I'm good at all that stuff already. It seems to me that changing the way I think would cause me to lose as much as I'd gain. I don't think one way is better than the other, but rather that it takes all types. I am me and that's a good thing, and you are you, and that's a good thing too.

    I do try to get good nutrition via food (i.e. fish oil by eating fish, eat veggies alot, avoid processed foods except when they are really tasty and right there and free like lemon cream filled donuts in the break room...fuck impulse control. I mean are you offering to make me not want donuts anymore? Give me donuts or give me death. (but, you know, allow me enough control over my environment that impulse control is not a constant issue....like, don't buy a bunch of donuts and put them in the kitchen where no one will know except me if I eat all of them. Get in my belly, donuts!)

    Plus what we are talking about here is only one of many genes. It doesn't tell my whole story. If you take every Val Val and average these traits and compare them to the average of every met/met and every val/met, you can see trends that are indicative of the possible effects of these genes, but in an individual, all bets are off.

    I'm 45 years old so I've got a good bit of past personal anecdote on the traits you've listed. I know myself pretty well at this point and I'm pretty good at hacking my problem traits when I want to. That's really the only satisfaction I can vicariously offer you.

    I've experimented with a great many extremely addictive things (decades ago and I will offer no details on the internet), and the only one that stuck was caffeine (dear god, the caffeine I consume...but I can quit anytime I want...please let there always be caffeine in my life). I quit nicotine cold turkey 15 years ago.

    When I was in my 20s, I smoked pot a lot and I didn't have any psychotic episodes as a result. Been there, done that, meh. Not worth the potential trouble now. If it was legal I might ingest it here and there, but mostly it just makes my day go by without me.

    I have an excellent working memory. Or if I don't, I don't realize it. I remember every single thing that I remember to remember. I do suck at typing long strings of random digits into the phone during automated calls unless it is a number I know by heart. I never manage to do it fast enough that it won't assume I've failed and forward me to a live person. But maybe everyone has that problem. I'm not overly concerned though.

    I have a lot of trouble ignoring outside distractions. VR desktop to the rescue! (seriously, VR and a good set of noise canceling headphones eliminates the shit out of distractions) Plus I have a study in my home that is all me and only me with a door that closes and sound absorbing foam and everything. But when I'm out in the world in data gathering mode I notice a lot of things other people don't, and ignore a lot of things other people see. I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't want to change it.

    I seriously doubt I could be hypnotized unless I wanted to be, and I cannot imagine a scenario in which that would be the case. I was that one person in a lineup of audience volunteers for a stage hypnotist who boringly refused to cluck like a chicken on camera. My date accused me of being a bad sport by not playing along, but I think he was just mad because he clucked like a chicken and I didn't. I suspect stage hypnotists are just people who can socially leverage others into playing along and who can pick people out of a crowd who will play along. This hypnotist did not pick me. He picked my date and my date dragged me along.

    I'm extremely good at both math and language, as measured in standardized tests (99th percentile in language on GRE, perfect scores on math tests in college that almost everyone else failed, etc. 99th percentile in every category on the ASVAB except clerical...60th percentile there. I must have gotten distracted by an outside stimulus, ha) and as reflected in my relative standing in graduate courses that centered on the same. The problem with 99th percentiles in two things is that it becomes impossible to tell which of the two things I am relatively better at. I'll say it's probably verbal...but if you had asked me in college when I was taking math classes, I'd have said math. In any case, my potential has never been the limiting factor in any of these things.

    My IQ when it was measured in grade school was very high -- high enough that making it higher would probably make me feel lonely, especially if you consider that I've built a social network and all of my relationships around being the person I already am. I've got zero interest in knowing what it is now. I rather hope my IQ has gone down because it would be a positive thing if I was wrong about how I see the rest of the world.

    I am certain that if I was more ambitious and focused I'd have gone further down the paths I was distracted from when I was in school, but I'd have missed out on all the things that distracted me and I wouldn't trade all of that for anything.
    That's not how they work. They normalize you. Also, given that they are drugs, rather than permanent shifts in processing, you'll only be that way while they are in your system. That is, it's good to now know your genotypes, as you are now aware of options available to you.

    The idea isn't to become more judger-like, it's to try out these dopamine enhancers to see how they affect you. They only last as long as they are in your system. There are also other effects I didn't mention. Seeing the larger (genetic) picture rather than looking at one or two polymorphisms is the reason I mentioned sites like Promethease and Genetic Genie. Those tools take the sum of your genetic data, and runs an analysis on them to mesh together underlying patterns. It can be quite informative. Even if you decide not to try the supplements recommended, it would be cool if you ran your results through the tools and shared the result here, so I can compare what it says with your personal experiences (similar to what you wrote above).

    For example, it would be cool to see your before and after (supplementing with dopamine enhancers) scores on the following tests: http://www.cambridgebrainsciences.com/ .

    It's good that you try to get most nutrients from food. That is of course the desired approach. In certain cases (magnesium and astaxanthin, for example), it becomes unfeasible to naturally get the amounts needed, so supplementation comes into play.

    As for IQ, then it's back again to the drugs only working for a finite period of time. If you are away from others when supplementing, then you get the extra horsepower for not much more work. Maybe you don't want it, but it's there whenever you need it. You seem to continually assume it's as though you're going to magically and permanently change into an entirely different person. These things are like taking melatonin to help get to sleep or caffeine to help ignore fatigue. That is, they help you in one area or another for a set period of time. Also, the main thing here is that where others would only notice marginal/mild effects, you are likely to be in a position to notice much stronger effects. How you use the extra firepower is up to you, so I'm not sure why you settled into thinking of the "ordered, regimented, high achiever, ENTJ-like" stereotype.

    Also, there's a stack I have in mind that helps with creativity (either enhances it or "stabilizes" it a bit (makes it easier to access and hold on to)), and I'm wondering how much stronger its effects would be on you versus everyone else. The stack doesn't target dopamine explicitly, but as you are likely more creative than you normally would be (another thing associated with the Val/Val polymorphism), I'm wondering if it would enhance it even more or have no effect. Essentially, I'm just pretty much wondering what Val/Val + any of these supplements results in.

    The stacks: https://trackmystack.com/users/baccheion

    If you'd stop thinking of things as permanent ("oh no, I want my mommy, I don't want to change"), especially because they aren't, then maybe you'll see the plus that I'm noticing. You have explicitly being told to you what supplements you'll benefit from. And rather than it being some random suggestion from some-person-X, it's something that has a much higher likelihood of working as claimed.

  3. #13
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    I've always had about zero curiosity about my genetic make-up. The interest itself strikes me as rather eccentric. Some people have asked what my "ethnicity" is and I'm not too sure what to say.

    Some strangers in Europe (selling things for tourists) have addressed me in basic Spanish. Yet they ask my twin if she's Italian (she's also whiter). It's quite strange to realize you may look like something.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I've always had about zero curiosity about my genetic make-up. The interest itself strikes me as rather eccentric. Some people have asked what my "ethnicity" is and I'm not too sure what to say.

    Some strangers in Europe (selling things for tourists) have addressed me in basic Spanish. Yet they ask my twin if she's Italian (she's also whiter). It's quite strange to realize you may look like something.
    I didn't really have interest for this reason either (I'm obviously black). I was slightly interested in just seeing the results (and slightly got excited at the thought I'd surprisingly have something else to me), but it was when I started the battle with supplements, medications, nootropics, etc that my field of view was opened up. Even at a young age most supplements had no effect on me. Also, caffeine or b vitamins would make be drowsy/groggy/sleepy. This has made it difficult to find and figure out what works for me. I'm hoping these results will either help point me in the right direction or alert me to any hidden problems I'd never become aware I have.

  5. #15
    Did 23andme and ancestry. I'd recommend anybody run their results through https://promethease.com/
    I found out some interesting stuff you don't get from 23andme etc.

    I'm rs4680 a;a - met/met.

  6. #16
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    "oh no, I want my mommy, I don't want to change"), especially because they aren't, then maybe you'll see the plus that I'm noticing. You have explicitly being told to you what supplements you'll benefit from. And rather than it being some random suggestion from some-person-X, it's something that has a much higher likelihood of working as claimed.
    Did you just neg me?

    You ARE some random person. I have no reason to believe you are qualified to tell me that your stack of drugs with the stated purpose of altering my dopamine levels will not cause permanent changes in my brain chemistry or that they will work as claimed. Especially since you have made it clear that you are curious to see what will happen.

    I can see it now, "Well, doctor, I took this long list of drugs all at once because this person I met on the internet said they would make me smarter because I have a certain gene. He seemed so enthusiastic, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings by saying no, so here we are."

    I do not want to take your "stack". Deal with it.

    Besides, it would be pointless for your research. You can learn less than nothing from me taking these drugs, no matter how many before and after tests I take, no matter how much you know about my genetics, no matter how much data you collect. A sample size of one is insufficient to learn anything. I say less than nothing because a sample size of one is a recipe to be misled. How is it that you plan to deal with the human tendency for confirmation bias, which is particularly an issue when one is as passionate as you are about your prescription. How do you plan to control for the placebo effect? How do you plan to control for the fact that I'm a 45 year old woman with a million other things affecting me in real time at any given moment?

    If you truly want to learn how these drugs affect val/vals, you need to secure funding and conduct a double-blind placebo controlled experiment with a large sample of subjects. If you wish to use personality type as part of conclusions, you'll need to compare to other personality types. If you wish to make statements about one genotype vs. another, you'll need to include other genotypes for comparison.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by last_caress View Post
    Did 23andme and ancestry. I'd recommend anybody run their results through https://promethease.com/
    I found out some interesting stuff you don't get from 23andme etc.

    I'm rs4680 a;a - met/met.
    Would you mind sharing your results? I just got my kit today, and I'm curious what sorts of things you've found out.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    Did you just neg me?

    You ARE some random person. I have no reason to believe you are qualified to tell me that your stack of drugs with the stated purpose of altering my dopamine levels will not cause permanent changes in my brain chemistry or that they will work as claimed. Especially since you have made it clear that you are curious to see what will happen.

    I can see it now, "Well, doctor, I took this long list of drugs all at once because this person I met on the internet said they would make me smarter because I have a certain gene. He seemed so enthusiastic, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings by saying no, so here we are."

    I do not want to take your "stack". Deal with it.

    Besides, it would be pointless for your research. You can learn less than nothing from me taking these drugs, no matter how many before and after tests I take, no matter how much you know about my genetics, no matter how much data you collect. A sample size of one is insufficient to learn anything. I say less than nothing because a sample size of one is a recipe to be misled. How is it that you plan to deal with the human tendency for confirmation bias, which is particularly an issue when one is as passionate as you are about your prescription. How do you plan to control for the placebo effect? How do you plan to control for the fact that I'm a 45 year old woman with a million other things affecting me in real time at any given moment?

    If you truly want to learn how these drugs affect val/vals, you need to secure funding and conduct a double-blind placebo controlled experiment with a large sample of subjects. If you wish to use personality type as part of conclusions, you'll need to compare to other personality types. If you wish to make statements about one genotype vs. another, you'll need to include other genotypes for comparison.
    I am "some random person X," but the suggestions aren't sourced from me, eh? They are from research done by others (which you can easily search for).

    It's more that I thought you'd look into the suggestions I made (as is typical for an INTP). It's not going to directly help me with my "research" about myself, and I'm not curious/interested in the direction of wanting to do large scale controlled clinical studies. I'm just curious if the recommendations work out for you (and/or as to what effect the end up having on you).

    That is, INTPs (like myself) typically have the very real procrastination problem. As I've been searching for a long time for anything that will help me in this regard, I stumbled across the Val/Val polymorphism. While it's not looking likely I'll have that version (I'll probably be Val108/158Met), I'm curious how well the associations with lowered dopamine levels and massive results from stimulants, modafinil, and dopamine enhancers hold up "in real life." Essentially, I'm wondering if dopamine enhancers (or a COMT inhibitor) effectively eliminate your procrastination problem due to your polymorphism, whereas it would just give more energy (or something) in the general case. Maybe Val/Val positions you to be able to be a perceiver (INTP), while simultaneously not having procrastination issues. It would then be interesting to see what you're like in that state. That is, what's an INTP like when their procrastination is eliminated?

    Most of your uncertainties or doubts could be alleviated by reading a bit more online about these things, their effects, and other people's experience using them.

    I do not want to take your "stack". Deal with it.
    I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do with this. Care? Be hurt? Cry like a baby? Whip out some sex appeal, then throw myself at you in a sexual/suggestive fashion in an attempt to seduce you into going down the path I mentioned?
    Last edited by baccheion; 09-06-2016 at 04:50 PM.

  9. #19
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    I am "some random person X," but the suggestions aren't sourced from me, eh? They are from research done by others (which you can easily search for).

    It's more that I thought you'd look into the suggestions I made (as is typical for an INTP). It's not going to directly help me with my "research" about myself, and I'm not curious/interested in the direction of wanting to do large scale controlled clinical studies. I'm just curious if the recommendations work out for you (and/or as to what effect the end up having on you).

    That is, INTPs (like myself) typically have the very real procrastination problem. As I've been searching for a long time for anything that will help me in this regard, I stumbled across the Val/Val polymorphism. While it's not looking likely I'll have that version (I'll probably be Val108/158Met), I'm curious how well the associations with lowered dopamine levels and massive results from stimulants, modafinil, and dopamine enhancers hold up "in real life." Essentially, I'm wondering if dopamine enhancers (or a COMT inhibitor) effectively eliminate your procrastination problem due to your polymorphism, whereas it would just give more energy (or something) in the general case. Maybe Val/Val positions you to be able to be a perceiver (INTP), while simultaneously not having procrastination issues. It would then be interesting to see what you're like in that state. That is, what's an INTP like when their procrastination is eliminated?

    Most of your uncertainties or doubts could be alleviated by reading a bit more online about these things, their effects, and other people's experience using them.

    I'm not sure what I'm suppose to do with this. Care? Be hurt? Cry like a baby? Whip out some sex appeal, then throw myself at you in a sexual/suggestive fashion in an attempt to seduce you into going down the path I mentioned?
    I meant negging as a sales tactic, not a sex tactic. I said I didn't want to change my dopamine levels through supplementation, you attempted to talk me into it. You recast my satisfaction with my current dopamine levels as fear. You come across as a salesperson.

    In addition, you assured me that these drugs can cause no permanent changes. I am unconvinced that is the case as alteration of dopamine levels is the basis of many drug dependencies. You may be qualified to make this statement, but I do not have any evidence to support that.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    I meant negging as a sales tactic, not a sex tactic. I said I didn't want to change my dopamine levels through supplementation, you attempted to talk me into it. You recast my satisfaction with my current dopamine levels as fear. You come across as a salesperson.

    In addition, you assured me that these drugs can cause no permanent changes. I am unconvinced that is the case as alteration of dopamine levels is the basis of many drug dependencies. You may be qualified to make this statement, but I do not have any evidence to support that.
    Recast as fear? No, I said your concern (about the supplements inducing permanent change) isn't really valid.

    Are you aware of the supplements I mentioned? Let me repeat their names: N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine (L-Tyrosine is an amino acid (protein)-- something you get when you eat peanuts or chicken), Adrafinil/Modafinil/Nuvigil (this is the narcolepsy medication that became popular in recent years, due to its strong effect on ADHD (works like amphetamines, but without the addiction, side effects, tolerance, etc), wakefulness, and motivation), PhenylPiracetam Hydrazide (essentially a phenylated and hydrazide'd version of Piracetam, the original/first/oldest racetam), Acetyl L-Carnitine (L-Carnitine is an amino acid as well), fasoracetam (this is one of the newer racetam incarnations, and much more potent/effective as well), and theacrine (this is essentially caffeine 2.0-- an alternative/successor to caffeine that works in a similar way, but without many of the negative effects). You can look them up for more information.

    Fasoracetam may result in long-lasting effects (gets better the more you use it), but those effects are on the GABA systems/receptors/whatever.

    Change can result in the sense that if you take L-Tyrosine (or other dopamine enhancers) too frequently or at too high a dosage, then your body may downregulate its own production of dopamine, leaving you dependent on the supplement form. This is something known, however, and is very different from the form of change you worried about earlier.

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