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Thread: Population control: Lesser of evils

  1. #21
    凸(ಠ_ರೃ )凸 stuck's Avatar
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    skynet is the lesser of all possible evils, aka the minimum peppering of anguses, aka pepper your angus.

  2. #22
    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Neville has it right. Education + full employment (of both genders) is the most effective population control policy ever invented.


    Lowered infant mortality might have contributed to population growth in the 16th century, but today if you look it up you'll find that the correlation works the other way--i.e. the countries with the highest infant mortality rates are generally also the ones with population growth rates above the global average.


    In fact, contrary to apparent assumptions, birth and death rates in general consistently correlate and both go down as incomes go up and medical care becomes more available.

    Lack of access to adequate medical care is generally the main reason for high infant mortality rates in the countries that have the highest infant mortality rates, which again are also the countries with the highest population growth rates.

    What you're proposing would be a good way to get lots more of the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    This goes back to education. My father educated me as I was approaching adolescence. He told me there's a word for men who rely on women for birth control: fathers.
    Pretty much. I don't feel sorry for anyone who got pregnant/got someone pregnant because they were relying on the other party to provide birth control.

  4. #24
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    And even if with birth control, it's never a 100% guarantee.
    Too bad, Lady Une. You were far too lenient.
    As a soldier, yes. But as a civilian I lived an austere life.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Tetris Champion notdavidlynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    Neville has it right. Education + full employment (of both genders) is the most effective population control policy ever invented.
    The education part should include sex education that favors anal over abstinence.

  6. #26
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdavidlynch View Post
    The education part should include sex education that favors anal over abstinence.
    STDS. STDS. STDS.

    /works in an ob-gyn clinic
    Too bad, Lady Une. You were far too lenient.
    As a soldier, yes. But as a civilian I lived an austere life.

  7. #27
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notdavidlynch View Post
    The education part should include sex education that favors anal over abstinence.
    I thought that was already the way in protestant America?
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    I don't think overpopulation is even close to a problem...I mean, in and of itself. The issue is the population:resources ratio. There're probably already enough resources to go 'round fairly well...just poorly distributed...but really, one acre tended properly can easily feed 8+ people for a year. We can literally grow the resources required in order for 'overpopulation' to just be 'population'. Modern commercial agricultural practices are not based on efficiency of production per acre, but on efficiency of harvest and the minimization of human involvement(eg. profit margins). By just interplanting a large variety of different crops in the same field you can increase production per unit of area massively while also increasing the pest resilience of the farm.
    Definitely possible, but it'd take extraordinary circumstances to get from here to there without a global catastrophe happening first (for example, something on the level of the Black Plague, which arguably made the Enlightenment possible). So we can either let billions of people die in war/famine/disease when our current models fail, or keep our current models going by restricting population, and as a result, prolonging our time in this current era. Who knows, maybe the extended time allow us to create some sort of ultimate energy source that makes this all a moot point?

  9. #29
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Mexico View Post
    Neville has it right. Education + full employment (of both genders) is the most effective population control policy ever invented.


    Lowered infant mortality might have contributed to population growth in the 16th century, but today if you look it up you'll find that the correlation works the other way--i.e. the countries with the highest infant mortality rates are generally also the ones with population growth rates above the global average.


    In fact, contrary to apparent assumptions, birth and death rates in general consistently correlate and both go down as incomes go up and medical care becomes more available.

    Lack of access to adequate medical care is generally the main reason for high infant mortality rates in the countries that have the highest infant mortality rates, which again are also the countries with the highest population growth rates.

    What you're proposing would be a good way to get lots more of the exact opposite of what you're trying to achieve.
    First: I'm on Team @Neville for this one too.

    BUT, I think you're overlooking the possibility of combining both the policies in the OP. If childhood mortality rates returned to previous levels and a strict one child policy were in effect, it's reasonable to believe there would be a significant reduction in population. For completeness, this is one child per person period. If you have a kid and the kid dies, too bad, that's it. Even if you choose a new partner, you're done: snip snip. Someone has to get a vasectomy and someone has to get a tubal ligation for every child conceived. Yes, I'm counting miscarriages, and yes, I know they're common.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

  10. #30
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    First: I'm on Team @Neville for this one too.

    BUT, I think you're overlooking the possibility of combining both the policies in the OP. If childhood mortality rates returned to previous levels and a strict one child policy were in effect, it's reasonable to believe there would be a significant reduction in population. For completeness, this is one child per person period. If you have a kid and the kid dies, too bad, that's it. Even if you choose a new partner, you're done: snip snip. Someone has to get a vasectomy and someone has to get a tubal ligation for every child conceived. Yes, I'm counting miscarriages, and yes, I know they're common.
    Then you've got a huge overload of aging adults that will dwarf the current baby boomer problem by several orders of magnitude. There won't even be enough workers to man the suicide booths.

    I see two options: Take a select few to start a colony on an extraterrestrial island paradise while simultaneously destroying the earth.

    Or: Muddle through, worrying more about overall global culture and localized population/resource mis-match problems.

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