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Thread: Marriage?

  1. #151
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    @Robcore

    I think you may have the luxury of luck coloring your experiences. This works with your wife, and you don't own her part in that. Your philosophy didn't cause her to be who she is. Your philosophy, when applied to someone like your wife, works. It could have just as easily led to you patiently putting up with emotional abuse, though I'm going to give you some credit and say that I bet, if you had proceeded down this path with someone who selfishly exploited your philosophy for personal gain, you'd have probably called that a dealbreaker.

    Once we were married, my first husband did a 180 in his attitude toward me. He quickly became committed to making sure that everyone, especially me, knew that every single thing that was wrong in our little corner of the world was my fault. I tried very hard to put up with it, to try to reason with him, with myself, etc. I found my self esteem dying, my available life paths shrinking, and I determined that the best path forward for me was to leave him. I did, at that point, have silly notions about how being divorced was a stigma and how you should be someone's one true love and blah blah @Sinny we'll share a laugh if I'm still alive when you are my age, because seriously, life isn't going to go the way you think, and I don't aim that at you, or at what you think, it's just a universal truth. Find any 50 year old and ask them, "Is my life going to go the way I think?") I remember lying awake in bed a few nights before the wedding, head all swimming with notions of forever and of love and of having a long journey through life as a team, overcoming every obstacle. Ha, I was violently disabused of all of those notions.

    Instead of putting "Is perfectly ok with me being smart, tall, strong, mechanically inclined, and independent and can handle it when I'm naturally good at shit that is typically guy stuff" on my dealbreaker list," I then went on to marry a man who wanted me to stand in a hole during our wedding photos so he wouldn't look short. I refused, and he pretended that was ok, but he never let go of it. It was a metaphor for everything that would go wrong in our marriage ... he needed me to metaphorically stand in a hole in everything I was naturally good at, and I am the kind of person who doesn't hold back. He ended up cheating on me with a short person who liked to ohh and ahhh about how smart he was. To be fair, that was my fault for marrying/dating him in the first place when I had already been enlightened through experience about how that was going to go. He made a public spectacle of the proposal and I didn't want to be a bitch. He hadn't done anything terrible to me after all. What right did I have to break this poor man's heart. I felt like I was going to my funeral when I went to the wedding, but I was applying the philosophy that whatever happened, I could make it work. I mean he wasn't a bad person, he just had some issues, right?
    I was aware, just before the wedding, that things were not great, when I was told by my new mother in law that I was welcome to have whatever I wanted from MY OWN FRIDGE. I got drunk at the reception and put on my biker boots with my wedding dress after my mother-in-law finished telling the story about how we had to go to a million stores to find pretty shoes for the dress that were big enough for me. There's a hilarious photo in which the photographer tried to get me to vamp all sexy for the camera and I gave him a look that told him I would rather shove my boot up his ass by way of his testicles.

    The truth comes out when you are drunk. People who are lying to themselves should be very careful about that.

    You seem to believe that we live in a "dealbreaker" culture. I don't see it that way. I have sort of the opposite perspective. I think most dating is based on making sure the other person doesn't find out any truth that would be a dealbreaker because heavens to betsy, what if we aren't right for each other the end of the world and I'm a failure and I'm doomed to be alone, oooohhhh gooooodddd.

    Dating should NOT be about convincing someone you are right for them. It should be about figuring out if you are right for each other. You can't just put two random people together and expect them to grow toward enlightenment. We tried that for centuries. Some cultures still do. It may work sometimes, if you have the luxury of luck, but more often it leads to abuse and/or misery. We are lucky enough to live in a culture where we are permitted to choose NOT to date someone or marry someone.

    I do, however, concede that if you are already with someone and something unforeseen happens to change the circumstances, you should roll with it. Your spouse may, for a too pertinent example, need a lengthy hospital stay, and that's not going to be easy on either of you, but this is what I think the buddhist roll with it principle is about. If one of my nieces or nephews had been orphaned as a kid, I'd have done everything in my power to take care of them and provide a loving home for them, even though I didn't want kids. If your spouse gets cancer, that is going to suck for you too, but you roll with that. You take what life throws at you. But that doesn't mean you let life throw shit at you. And it doesn't mean you don't try to duck when you see shit coming.

    You have a responsibility to try to attempt to choose wisely when you are offered a choice because no matter how enlightened and go with the flow you are, some choices lead to more turmoil and misery than others. Would it have been better for @Sinny to have been more honest with herself about whether or not she wanted a relationship with a man who was divorced and who had 3 kids already before she ever started it, fuck yeah, but it can be difficult in the wave of dating emotion to be honest with yourself, and besides, that ship is sailed. If she refuses to make a tough choice now, it could lead to more turmoil, not just for her, but for an ex wife, three children, and a father. Lying to people about what you feel is not how you achieve enlightenment. If she resents the very idea of being a stepmother to three children, it would be wrong in the extreme for her to take on that roll. Just ask anyone with a stepparent who didn't want them around. That's some powerfully cruel shit. Going with the flow doesn't mean "Lie to yourself about what you can handle" or "never steer away from disaster."
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  2. #152
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Well he contacted me again tonight to apologise for being such an incorrigible twat, and he wanted to discuss the details of various scenarios properly.. we discussed them, and then he said it's it's not worth the damage it would cause - before promptly falling asleep mid - conversation.

    So it turns out he's been wasting my time up until the very last minute. He's a waste of time and waste of space, regardless of whether I can turn myself into Mary fuckin Poppins or not.

    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  3. #153
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    @Sistamatic
    I think my issue with dealbreakers, is that they are based on aversion rather than attraction. I'm not advocating for not changing course...I definitely believe in going with one's conscience, unrelentingly. I think conscience > preference...and basically, that's the sum of my distaste for dealbreakers. Conscience is situational, and context-considerate...it tells you when to roll with it, and when another path is calling. It requires presence to go with your conscience...it isn't calculated, like a check-box.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

  4. #154
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  5. #155
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    @jigglypuff and @Sistamatic are spot on.
    @Robcore, did you have many serious relationships before your wife? Just curious.

  6. #156
    chaotic neutral shitpost jigglypuff's Avatar
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    Robcore’s dealbreaker is dealbreakers lol
    the clouds in the sky caress my mind so tenderly

  7. #157
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Robcore, did you have many serious relationships before your wife? Just curious.
    Nope. Curious what your presumption about that will be, though.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

  8. #158
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jigglypuff View Post
    Robcore’s dealbreaker is dealbreakers lol
    Pretty sure my wife had some dealbreakers when we met, but lol anyway.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

  9. #159
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Nope. Curious what your presumption about that will be, though.
    Reading your stuff, my intuition felt like you talked like a person who hadn't had a lot of experience with relationships other than your current successful one.

  10. #160
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Nope. Curious what your presumption about that will be, though.
    Have you ever been through a difficult breakup?

    I ask because you do not come across as a native speaker of breakupese, or like you are describing a place you've heard a lot about, but that you've never visited. I don't think you understand the misery of being forced into a role in order to make someone else happy.

    How about another of my analogies that go way too far...

    A failed relationship is like an old car that you've sunk way too much money into...only instead of wasting money, you are wasting time...wasting your life.

    Consider a guy I know who is in a relationship that makes him desperately unhappy. He's been in it since he was 16, and he'll probably be in it until he's dead. Decades into this relationship, he did shitty shitty things, probably because he subconsciously hoped she'd divorce him because he knows she'll dedicate her life to making him hate his even more if he divorces her, and they have children. He tried counseling, but when his wife found out that the counseling wasn't going to be all about what HE was doing wrong, she refused to go back. They can never have what you have. They will never know what a good relationship is like. The point at which that was still on the table was 20 years ago when they should have been more honest with themselves about what they wanted in life.

    This is what can happen when two people with mutually exclusive needs and goals proceed to the point of irrevocable entanglement.


    Google "kittenfishing" and "Virtual dating assistants." Advocating against dealbreakers is like advocating against water in a desert. I get it, I mean if you (the royal you consisting of single and searching yous) run across someone truly amazing, someone like Robcore's wife was to him, be open to relaxing some of your criteria, but if you want to avoid a lot of unnecessary pain in your life, don't be afraid to be a) picky as hell, and b) honest as hell.
    Last edited by Sistamatic; 04-17-2018 at 05:22 PM.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

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