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Thread: Creep Shots, Privacy, Voyeurism & Art

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    Bringer of Jollity MoneyJungle's Avatar
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    Creep Shots, Privacy, Voyeurism & Art

    I enjoy drawing people. I'm not particularly skilled or talented but it makes me happy. Sometimes I see the most drawable people out in the world. Today I saw this guy who had to be 400 pounds being passionately discursive to an old man across his table. I wanted to take a discrete picture, for illustration, but it felt like theft so I didn't. I'd ask, but then the subject would be posing instead of acting naturally.

    Is it silly, in this age of mass surveillance, to demure from snapping pictures of unaware people in public? To what level of privacy do people in public have a right?

    Does the intent of the photographer justify taking someone's picture without their awareness? Is it more wrong to photograph for masturbation rather than purely artistic purposes? Are attractive women off limits but everyone else fair game?

    What if you have no sexual intent at the time of the photo but wind up flicking your bean to the smexy etchings you wind up creating?

    Is it as simple as porn vs art? Affirmative consent as an arousal de-escalator?

    Is honing my 'mental camera' the only ethical solution? Is there an ethical difference from someone with a theoretically perfect photographic memory drawing from their mind vs someone using secret pics for strictly personal purposes?

    I don't take pictures of the unaware as a practical matter but I probably would if I could do so with infallible discretion. It seems like a waste to not illustrate people in highly drawable situations but nobody stays still long enough for me to capture them via my shit-tier artistic skills.
    Last edited by MoneyJungle; 11-20-2016 at 09:16 PM.

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    Ecnet crew since '08 interprétation erronée's Avatar
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    There's a thread about attracting more site traffic, increasing membership, etc. And one of the suggestions was to post substantive non-tangential content people will take more interest in. So um. Here's a shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyJungle View Post
    Does the intent of the photographer justify taking someone's picture without their awareness? Is it more wrong to photograph for masturbation rather than purely artistic purposes? Are attractive women off limits but everyone else fair game?
    How is un-consensually snapping a photo of a beautiful person and doing reprehensible things with it offensive enough to qualify as a violation of another's rights, any different than someone with an eidetic memory remembering a beautiful woman's image in their mind and doing God knows what kink with that information? It's about the same. And you wouldn't indict someone who is highly intelligent on the grounds of a personal rights violation against attractive people because the highly intelligent person likes to think sexually explicit thoughts represented by pictorially accurate images about other people in the buff. What evidence would you have to prove screwery? You can't make a case for corrupt intent or whatever without evidence. And accusing people of being photography perverts is actually granting a special class of rights to a privileged group because of their supposed attractiveness; which is discrimination and cannot be reconciled with the fundamental principle of equal rights. I feel like people's rights cannot extend to where they will trespass on another's rights to freedom of expression. Smart phone photography doesn't conflict with personal rights. Snap your photos and flick you bean good sir.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Je suis très curieux View Post
    There's a thread about attracting more site traffic, increasing membership, etc. And one of the suggestions was to post substantive non-tangential content people will take more interest in. So um. Here's a shot.



    How is un-consensually snapping a photo of a beautiful person and doing reprehensible things with it offensive enough to qualify as a violation of another's rights, any different than someone with an eidetic memory remembering a beautiful woman's image in their mind and doing God knows what kink with that information? It's about the same. And you wouldn't indict someone who is highly intelligent on the grounds of a personal rights violation against attractive people because the highly intelligent person likes to think sexually explicit thoughts represented by pictorially accurate images about other people in the buff. What evidence would you have to prove screwery? You can't make a case for corrupt intent or whatever without evidence. And accusing people of being photography perverts is actually granting a special class of rights to a privileged group because of their supposed attractiveness; which is discrimination and cannot be reconciled with the fundamental principle of equal rights. I feel like people's rights cannot extend to where they will trespass on another's rights to freedom of expression. Smart phone photography doesn't conflict with personal rights. Snap your photos and flick you bean good sir.
    The obvious difference is that you cannot stop people from remembering your face, but you can stop them from taking a permanent frozen image of you.

    I wouldn't like being photographed by a stranger – especially not in an age of face detection and reverse image search – but then again, I don't like having pictures taken of myself per se.

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    Ecnet crew since '08 interprétation erronée's Avatar
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    I feel like you've represented a caricature of the information I've written and therefore it feels like I'm fighting to enjoy my personal rights of expression. It's almost as if having personal rights, which I'm entitled to, doesn't actually feel attainable at the moment because I'm having to fight for them and I'd like to enforce a form of censorship on all further hostile opinions by Austrians that infringe on my personal rights of expression.

    It's totally okay to photograph people if one uses infallible discretion which is achievable by using a simple smart phone app that prevents the photographed images from being duplicated for bad purposes. Problem solved. Commence the bean flicking. The end.

    Sometimes when I yawn I taste pear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Je suis très curieux View Post
    I feel like you've represented a caricature of the information I've written and therefore it feels like I'm fighting to enjoy my personal rights of expression. It's almost as if having personal rights, which I'm entitled to, doesn't actually feel attainable at the moment because I'm having to fight for them and I'd like to enforce a form of censorship on all further hostile opinions by Austrians that infringe on my personal rights of expression.

    It's totally okay to photograph people if one uses infallible discretion which is achievable by using a simple smart phone app that prevents the photographed images from being duplicated for bad purposes. Problem solved. Commence the bean flicking. The end.


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    Ecnet crew since '08 interprétation erronée's Avatar
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    Sometimes when I yawn I taste pear

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    Faster. Than. Ever. Sloth's Avatar
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    @MoneyJungle

    For your scenario what you could do is snap the photo, then afterwards approach and ask if it's alright to use for the reasons you listed, and be willing to delete the photo in front of him if he says no.

    If it isn't for sexual reasons, I think a lot of people are ok with photos of them being taken doing normal things, especially if you're only using the photo as reference.

    Personally I'd be pretty irritated if some dude took my photo for the sole purpose of masterbating. There's seemingly endless content online of women who consented to get their photo taken for that purpose. Though I get that it may be a fantasy thing, the woman (or man) should have the right to choose to get their picture taken.

    I'm also under the impression that it's technically illegal to photograph someone without their consent.

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    dormant jigglypuff's Avatar
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    i'd think it's alright if you're not being pervy, emphasizing/using any aspect of their individual identity, and making them feel uncomfortable.

    if they approach you and tell you they don't want to be photographed, i'd respect that and delete the photo, but IME lots of people don't care. they just assume you're taking a picture of the setting and that you're not gonna bother to make them leave the frame. i've done this plenty of times but i'm quick about it and don't really focus in on individual people, usually.

    sometimes it's hard to tell where that line is exactly so i just try to get my shot and get out of there. this is all in public places. nobody's ever asked me what i was doing but if they did i'd tell them what it was for, that i'm a student doing an assignment, which is true.

    in the cases where i have made strangers the actual subject of a portrait, i asked them. some people do want to be seen/photographed.

    edit: i also use a "real camera" and not my phone which makes it seem more legit when i'm taking photos. probably makes a difference...
    Last edited by jigglypuff; 11-20-2016 at 11:53 PM.

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    igKnight Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Je suis très curieux View Post
    How is un-consensually snapping a photo of a beautiful person and doing reprehensible things with it offensive enough to qualify as a violation of another's rights, any different than someone with an eidetic memory remembering a beautiful woman's image in their mind and doing God knows what kink with that information?
    Transmissability. The Spank Bank isn't shareable. The photo is.

    That's sort of the principle idea of photography in the first place: to share sights that would otherwise only go with you because they are locked in your head.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

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    Zombie Jesus Bloody School Daze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sappho View Post
    The obvious difference is that you cannot stop people from remembering your face, but you can stop them from taking a permanent frozen image of you.

    I wouldn't like being photographed by a stranger – especially not in an age of face detection and reverse image search – but then again, I don't like having pictures taken of myself per se.

    Mmmm...there's remembering and there's committing to memory--in other words, switching your level of focus to something higher than normal in order to be more aware of its details (her details, in this case). Granted, it'd probably require checking her out a little in this case, which is from past experience its own can of worms, but at the same time I'd consider it lesser on some instinctual level than full creep-type shit.
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