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Thread: Reconciling Myself to Being an INTP Woman

  1. #31
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
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    @Garbage_Doll I'm pretty sure that survey is a few decades old. I would be very curious to see the results of a more contemporary study. I suspect that things are not as bad as they used to be.
    Too bad, Lady Une. You were far too lenient.
    As a soldier, yes. But as a civilian I lived an austere life.

  2. #32
    fluctuating Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Spoiler: a bunch of things you said
    Quote Originally Posted by Garbage_Doll View Post
    I appreciate the feedback I got busy and forgot this thread existed... haha.



    The first time I read this, it stumped me, honestly. It sounds like a contradiction, and it is, except to say it may be the difference between understanding the theoretical workings of things vs being able to make something work in reality.

    I feel like I understand emotions very well, especially emotional motivations. In theory, I understand how and why people feel as they do, especially when it is not typical. I understand RAW emotion, not what is expected. I get feedback that I have insight into how people work and that I give good advice. I can be very empathetic and am frequently sought as a confidante to others. BUT, sometimes I think it's because I DON'T take on the emotions of others. I stay calm and resist being influenced by their emotions. I understand it all intellectually. I actually have a intense drive to order and make sense of all emotion, so that even the strangest emotions will be analyzed by me and fit into an idea of how people work in my head.

    So I think I have pretty high intrapersonal intelligence, which is why I identified with INFP for so long. But my interpersonal intelligence is crap. I don't seem to grasp the play of emotions between people.

    In reality and outside of one-on-one confidante sessions, I am often emotionally dense with people. In situations where I am expected to have an emotional response (an expectation I often don't realize in the moment), and I don't feel it (because I often don't FEEL an emotion myself in relation to other people, including when I empathize with people), then I stay blank and people think I am angry or rude (this EXACT same response makes them think I am calm and soothing at other times). When people get excited and I don't express the same, then I think they find me a downer. I find the expectations of others to be emotionally demanding and many social niceties look like emotional manipulation to me (but sometimes I think this is because I don't fully understand it and feel at the mercy of people who do).

    Anyway, the major distinction here I can make is I fail to mirror people, and even when I know I should, I really just don't care to. I resent the expectation to express emotion when I don't feel it, not just because it's "fake", but mainly because it takes so much energy and I feel like an awkward idiot doing it. It just occurred to me that not mirroring people (or realizing they mirror me!) is a problem. I didn't even know it was a thing before. I didn't have that realization when I first read this question; this is a recent epiphany. I am in my 30s, and I am like, "Whoa, I don't mirror people or understand they mirror me, and that's why they hate me or I think they hate me."

    I read about inferior Fe in Naomi Quenk's "Was that really me?" and it hit home. The part about how INTPs, when stable, don't care if they are liked so much as respected; but when unstable, they get paranoid and insecure about people's reactions to them - yep, that's me. If I say hi to someone and they were previously smiling to someone else and then suddenly they stare back at me blankly, I may sometimes feel intensely rejected; but it just dawned on me that they are often mirroring my blank face (and yes, I see the hypocrisy in my demeanor and expectations for others). Fe types seem to think you always want to be emotionally in sync. Because FPs don't seem to expect this, I have always clicked better with FP women for friends and took this as another sign I am INFP also.

    Other stuff, I didn't realize for a long time that if you walk past people and don't acknowledge their existence, then they come to hate you. Even knowing this, I still don't care enough to do it most of the time.



    Thanks for this.... I am going to address it point by point. The highly negative view of female INTPs is kind of what gets to me though.

    Traits Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Characteristic to Least Characteristic)
    • Is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations (.35) - Yes and no. I relate to a childlike naiveté associated with INFPs when dealing with people, not reading much into anything. BUT, I also have bouts of paranoia where I think people are emotionally manipulative and faking it all for their own gain. If I sense emotional motivation behind reasoning, especially when used against me, then I zoom in on it. I am hyper-sensitive to emotional motivations hiding behind a rational justification.
    • Distrustful (.30) - see above
    • Sulky (.29) - yes
    • Evasive (.28) - yes
    • Indifferent (.28) - yes, but I call it a "benevolent indifference"
    • Resentful (.28) - yes, very much
    • Keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships (.27) - yes, but have improved on this
    • Defensive (.26) - yes
    • Wary (.26) - not sure how this word is being used....I suppose lack of apparent enthusiasm may lead to this impression
    • Unfriendly (.25) - I am told this...but I don't feel that way
    • Is subtly negativistic; ends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage (.25) - I am probably seen this way because I don't feel the same need for consensus that others seem to feel
    • Tends to be self-defensive (.25) - yes
    • Tense (.24) - yes
    • Aloof (.23) - yes
    • Extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame (.20) - not any more than anyone else

    Traits Not Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Uncharacteristic to Least Uncharacteristic)
    • Tolerant (-.27) - I am mostly an easygoing person and feel like I have a long rope. I don't care too much about what others do. But I am also told I make people feel like they are on eggshells, and a friend recently told me I have a habit of correcting people a lot.
    • Appreciative (-.26) - I think I am...
    • Helpful (-.26) - I admit I don't get warm, gooey feelings from helping people. If I do so, then it is out of principle. I have been told I am very helpful as a confidante and I don't run from that. I am unlikely to help in practical ways, unless it is teaching someone a concept. I generally don't see why people can't do stuff for themselves. Lack of independence in others irritates me, and I also don't like a lot of help from others.
    • Cooperative (-.25) - I am not openly rebellious, but I tend to be independent
    • Emphasizes being with others; gregarious (-.25) - no
    • Honest (-.24) - I am secretive, but not dishonest
    • Warm (-.24) - no
    • Pleasant (-.23) - ouch...
    • Sincere (-.23) - I think so...but I can see how when I contrive to mirror people it looks, well, contrived
    • Sympathetic (-.23) - I have become good at expressing sympathy in private situations
    • Understanding (-.23) - yes
    • Has social poise and presence; appears socially at ease (-.23) - people think I look like a snob, but I feel timid
    • Has a clear-cut, internally consistent personality (-.22) - no
    • Appears straightforward, forthright, candid in dealing with others (-.22) - I think yes, but I don't know how I appear
    • Is turned to for advice and reassurance (-.20) - yes

    Honestly, I still lean towards being a prickly variety of INFP, or I think that the pure Jungian types are just that - pure, theoretical types - and that I am simply an Introverted Rational and not purely Ti or Fi dominant. I also relate much more to common famous examples of INFP (more so INFP males, curioiusly...), and even my physical appearance has more of a dreamy, whimsical NF look to it.


    so, outside of it being a recent discovery, having trouble recociling my type description with my gender, and having nuanced emotions (well i guess they are nuanced because when i experience them they can be confusing at first) i can identify with the bulk of your statements... i also can be emotionally dense in groups... i believe it is partially tied to a feeling of disconnection from their thoughts and motivations which creates a certain level of apathy... i think that mental absorption in concepts (rather than application of those concepts) is also a contributing factor... i frequently am treated as something between a sounding board and advisor when interacting with people one on one... i understand their position readily, and am good at predicting outcomes of their planned/potential actions... i find that thinking things through in that way in my own life removes much of the mystery, and due to my proximity to the situation i lose a great deal of that perspective if i'm not a good deal more methodical in my considerations... i also relate well to the sentiment that remaining more or less emotionally neutral tends to cause people to project mental states into my actions that are more closely tied to their own state than mine... it is funny how people can take precisely same reaction and construe it in so many ways... this has taught me to be very concise in my phrasing/diction when i care about the results...i could go into more correlating segments, but i am feeling tired...

    when i take mbti tests i tend to land on intp/infp being a close call or as intp being a very clear cut result... i have had entp come up also... when i first read the types (prior to testing) i identified with intp quite strongly... i am not sure what level of use/interest any of thos will be to you, but there are my thoughts on this...

    post scipt:

    the exclusion concerning a recent discovery was in reference to mirroring others (in case that was unclear)... i was interrupted several times while writing this, so it may be a bit disjointed...
    Last edited by Obfuscate; 02-21-2017 at 07:26 AM.
    "The vanity of intelligence is that the intelligent man is often more committed to 'one-upping' his opponent than being truthful. When the idea of intelligence, rather than intelligence itself, becomes a staple, there is no wisdom in it."
    Criss Jami

    "When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion."
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."
    Dale Carnegie

  3. #33
    Member Garbage_Doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    so, outside of it being a recent discovery, having trouble recociling my type description with my gender, and having nuanced emotions (well i guess they are nuanced because when i experience them they can be confusing at first) i can identify with the bulk of your statements... i also can be emotionally dense in groups... i believe it is partially tied to a feeling of disconnection from their thoughts and motivations which creates a certain level of apathy... i think that mental absorption in concepts (rather than application of those concepts) is also a contributing factor... i frequently am treated as something between a sounding board and advisor when interacting with people one on one... i understand their position readily, and am good at predicting outcomes of their planned/potential actions... i find that thinking things through in that way in my own life removes much of the mystery, and due to my proximity to the situation i lose a great deal of that perspective if i'm not a good deal more methodical in my considerations... i also relate well to the sentiment that remaining more or less emotionally neutral tends to cause people to project mental states into my actions that are more closely tied to their own state than mine... it is funny how people can take precisely same reaction and construe it in so many ways... this has taught me to be very concise in my phrasing/diction when i care about the results...i could go into more correlating sefments, but i am feeling tired...

    when i take mbti tests i tend to land on intp/infp being a close call or as intp being a very clear cut result... i have had entp come up also... when i first read the types (prior to testing) i identified with intp quite strongly... i am not sure what level of use/interest any of thos will be to you, but there are my thoughts on this...
    Haha! I have not learned to be concise, clearly

    It reads almost like a summary, except not sure what the bolded part is about. I may lose my perspective when I am personally involved in certain things (and I may lose my cool too....), but I don't know about the mystery bit. If you mean a preference to explore and see what happens instead of that Te logistics stuff....well, yeah.

  4. #34
    fluctuating Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbage_Doll View Post
    Haha! I have not learned to be concise, clearly

    It reads almost like a summary, except not sure what the bolded part is about. I may lose my perspective when I am personally involved in certain things (and I may lose my cool too....), but I don't know about the mystery bit. If you mean a preference to explore and see what happens instead of that Te logistics stuff....well, yeah.
    i mean that i think planning ahead is dull... i like to react to the world more than i like to prepare for it... i like to look at things through the lens of all functions (i lean towards some more than others obviously), but not ahead of time...

    i do like exploration, but it wasn't precisely what i had meant in that moment... on the other hand, what i just described does sound a lot like exploration (so i guess you were accurate or quite close)...
    "The vanity of intelligence is that the intelligent man is often more committed to 'one-upping' his opponent than being truthful. When the idea of intelligence, rather than intelligence itself, becomes a staple, there is no wisdom in it."
    Criss Jami

    "When dealing with people, remember you are not dealing with creatures of logic, but creatures of emotion."
    "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving."
    Dale Carnegie

  5. #35
    Senior Member Spartan26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gator View Post
    There is also the fact that the standard MBTI descriptions of INTPs and career suggestions lean very heavily toward STEM and academic things like computer programming, math, engineering, academia. These are definitely good options for INTPs But there is a significant number of us that are more drawn toward creative jobs and hobbies. Some of us have followed that inclination into actual career paths. I'm thinking myself, @stuck, @jigglypuff, @Spartan26 etc. (I'll add @Sappho to the list even though she's come around to calling herself intj). There are others who are just pulled very significantly toward some form of expressive arts, like @Dirac and @Makers!*. It's not something that we all share across the board, but I feel like there are enough of us that it necessitates a partial rewrite of the type description.
    I remember taking tests, not necessarily named mbti but loosely based, as far back as high school and writer came up. Also technical writer and journalist got thrown about. At the time it was something I liked to do but wasn't considering it as a career path. Journalist I tried to nix two times in college because of things that I thought would drain me. First job out of college - magazine, so go figure. But it was creative work not hard features. Sometimes I'll look at lists of career paths and creative fields are so broadly written that I don't know if the people who devise the list really have insight into all the possible positions or what would be good for someone's type or not.

    Case in point, had a convo earlier today with a commercial director, who might be an INTP. The subject of networking came up. Specifically how it related to our stagnant careers. Then, being a self starter. Then, motivation. Then, follow through. We laughed but it was pretty freckin' sad in a way, too. But we both knew of creatively marginal, at best, go getters who seems to bounce from job to job more like traveling snake oil salesmen. By the time people see through them, they're on to the next gig. Likely paying more than the previous one. Compensation is another topic that didn't come up this time as it related to us but it's something that's also thorn in the side of many intuitive creatives.

    I could see how composing, painting, writing would be ideal for INTPs for the intensity of ideas, isolation in working on projects, stretching boundaries from what previously existed, but hustling for work, getting out, all the time, meeting people, forcing to make deadlines, constantly self promoting is a dance with the devil that we might not be so bad at but it would be a heavily forced activity.

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