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Thread: Reconciling Myself to Being an INTP Woman

  1. #21
    Senior Member jyng1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Hmm, architects and engineers both dream up the ideas, I just think the ones that come from architects look much better.

    /quibble
    Oh really.


  2. #22
    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    From a 200+ page PDF about INTPs:
    http://www.oddlydevelopedtypes.com/f...of%20INTPs.pdf

    Traits Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Characteristic to Least Characteristic)
    • Is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations (.35)
    • Distrustful (.30)
    • Sulky (.29)
    • Evasive (.28)
    • Indifferent (.28)
    • Resentful (.28)
    • Keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships (.27)
    • Defensive (.26)
    • Wary (.26)
    • Unfriendly (.25)
    • Is subtly negativistic; ends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage (.25)
    • Tends to be self-defensive (.25)
    • Tense (.24)
    • Aloof (.23)
    • Extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame (.20)

    Traits Not Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Uncharacteristic to Least Uncharacteristic)
    • Tolerant (-.27)
    • Appreciative (-.26)
    • Helpful (-.26)
    • Cooperative (-.25)
    • Emphasizes being with others; gregarious (-.25)
    • Honest (-.24)
    • Warm (-.24)
    • Pleasant (-.23)
    • Sincere (-.23)
    • Sympathetic (-.23)
    • Understanding (-.23)
    • Has social poise and presence; appears socially at ease (-.23)
    • Has a clear-cut, internally consistent personality (-.22)
    • Appears straightforward, forthright, candid in dealing with others (-.22)
    • Is turned to for advice and reassurance (-.20)

  3. #23
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    Welcome @Garbage_Doll. Most INTP's are lovely people and cuddly huggers.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIOTCH View Post
    The majority of females and males who test as INTP actually tend to be INFJs and INFP's. Please educate urselves on cognitive functions of INFJ's and INFP's
    You're totally an ESFP, so your opinion is invalid.

  5. #25
    Member Garbage_Doll's Avatar
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    I appreciate the feedback I got busy and forgot this thread existed... haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I'm curious about this. You recognize that your emotions are "strong and nuanced" (I'm not sure anyone would claim otherwise though) and that you can recognize emotions in others, but you don't understand the way those emotions interact in a complex social exchange? I just find it odd that you can recognize one and not the other. Can you give an example of the type of exchange that confuses you?
    The first time I read this, it stumped me, honestly. It sounds like a contradiction, and it is, except to say it may be the difference between understanding the theoretical workings of things vs being able to make something work in reality.

    I feel like I understand emotions very well, especially emotional motivations. In theory, I understand how and why people feel as they do, especially when it is not typical. I understand RAW emotion, not what is expected. I get feedback that I have insight into how people work and that I give good advice. I can be very empathetic and am frequently sought as a confidante to others. BUT, sometimes I think it's because I DON'T take on the emotions of others. I stay calm and resist being influenced by their emotions. I understand it all intellectually. I actually have a intense drive to order and make sense of all emotion, so that even the strangest emotions will be analyzed by me and fit into an idea of how people work in my head.

    So I think I have pretty high intrapersonal intelligence, which is why I identified with INFP for so long. But my interpersonal intelligence is crap. I don't seem to grasp the play of emotions between people.

    In reality and outside of one-on-one confidante sessions, I am often emotionally dense with people. In situations where I am expected to have an emotional response (an expectation I often don't realize in the moment), and I don't feel it (because I often don't FEEL an emotion myself in relation to other people, including when I empathize with people), then I stay blank and people think I am angry or rude (this EXACT same response makes them think I am calm and soothing at other times). When people get excited and I don't express the same, then I think they find me a downer. I find the expectations of others to be emotionally demanding and many social niceties look like emotional manipulation to me (but sometimes I think this is because I don't fully understand it and feel at the mercy of people who do).

    Anyway, the major distinction here I can make is I fail to mirror people, and even when I know I should, I really just don't care to. I resent the expectation to express emotion when I don't feel it, not just because it's "fake", but mainly because it takes so much energy and I feel like an awkward idiot doing it. It just occurred to me that not mirroring people (or realizing they mirror me!) is a problem. I didn't even know it was a thing before. I didn't have that realization when I first read this question; this is a recent epiphany. I am in my 30s, and I am like, "Whoa, I don't mirror people or understand they mirror me, and that's why they hate me or I think they hate me."

    I read about inferior Fe in Naomi Quenk's "Was that really me?" and it hit home. The part about how INTPs, when stable, don't care if they are liked so much as respected; but when unstable, they get paranoid and insecure about people's reactions to them - yep, that's me. If I say hi to someone and they were previously smiling to someone else and then suddenly they stare back at me blankly, I may sometimes feel intensely rejected; but it just dawned on me that they are often mirroring my blank face (and yes, I see the hypocrisy in my demeanor and expectations for others). Fe types seem to think you always want to be emotionally in sync. Because FPs don't seem to expect this, I have always clicked better with FP women for friends and took this as another sign I am INFP also.

    Other stuff, I didn't realize for a long time that if you walk past people and don't acknowledge their existence, then they come to hate you. Even knowing this, I still don't care enough to do it most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnClay View Post
    Thanks for this.... I am going to address it point by point. The highly negative view of female INTPs is kind of what gets to me though.

    Traits Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Characteristic to Least Characteristic)
    • Is basically distrustful of people in general; questions their motivations (.35) - Yes and no. I relate to a childlike naivetι associated with INFPs when dealing with people, not reading much into anything. BUT, I also have bouts of paranoia where I think people are emotionally manipulative and faking it all for their own gain. If I sense emotional motivation behind reasoning, especially when used against me, then I zoom in on it. I am hyper-sensitive to emotional motivations hiding behind a rational justification.
    • Distrustful (.30) - see above
    • Sulky (.29) - yes
    • Evasive (.28) - yes
    • Indifferent (.28) - yes, but I call it a "benevolent indifference"
    • Resentful (.28) - yes, very much
    • Keeps people at a distance; avoids close interpersonal relationships (.27) - yes, but have improved on this
    • Defensive (.26) - yes
    • Wary (.26) - not sure how this word is being used....I suppose lack of apparent enthusiasm may lead to this impression
    • Unfriendly (.25) - I am told this...but I don't feel that way
    • Is subtly negativistic; ends to undermine and obstruct or sabotage (.25) - I am probably seen this way because I don't feel the same need for consensus that others seem to feel
    • Tends to be self-defensive (.25) - yes
    • Tense (.24) - yes
    • Aloof (.23) - yes
    • Extrapunitive; tends to transfer or project blame (.20) - not any more than anyone else

    Traits Not Seen as Characteristic of Female INTPs
    (From Most Uncharacteristic to Least Uncharacteristic)
    • Tolerant (-.27) - I am mostly an easygoing person and feel like I have a long rope. I don't care too much about what others do. But I am also told I make people feel like they are on eggshells, and a friend recently told me I have a habit of correcting people a lot.
    • Appreciative (-.26) - I think I am...
    • Helpful (-.26) - I admit I don't get warm, gooey feelings from helping people. If I do so, then it is out of principle. I have been told I am very helpful as a confidante and I don't run from that. I am unlikely to help in practical ways, unless it is teaching someone a concept. I generally don't see why people can't do stuff for themselves. Lack of independence in others irritates me, and I also don't like a lot of help from others.
    • Cooperative (-.25) - I am not openly rebellious, but I tend to be independent
    • Emphasizes being with others; gregarious (-.25) - no
    • Honest (-.24) - I am secretive, but not dishonest
    • Warm (-.24) - no
    • Pleasant (-.23) - ouch...
    • Sincere (-.23) - I think so...but I can see how when I contrive to mirror people it looks, well, contrived
    • Sympathetic (-.23) - I have become good at expressing sympathy in private situations
    • Understanding (-.23) - yes
    • Has social poise and presence; appears socially at ease (-.23) - people think I look like a snob, but I feel timid
    • Has a clear-cut, internally consistent personality (-.22) - no
    • Appears straightforward, forthright, candid in dealing with others (-.22) - I think yes, but I don't know how I appear
    • Is turned to for advice and reassurance (-.20) - yes

    Honestly, I still lean towards being a prickly variety of INFP, or I think that the pure Jungian types are just that - pure, theoretical types - and that I am simply an Introverted Rational and not purely Ti or Fi dominant. I also relate much more to common famous examples of INFP (more so INFP males, curioiusly...), and even my physical appearance has more of a dreamy, whimsical NF look to it.

  6. #26
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Deckard's Avatar
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    @Garbage_Doll The discrepancy you're talking about could be a mix of low emotional affect and being overwhelmed by information in a social context. It's easier for me to understand emotional nuances when there's a degree of separation. If I'm personally involved in an emotional exchange IRL, most of my brain is taken up by immediate social processing and I have to detach in order to sift through the web of motivations, judgements, feelings, etc.

    It's strange to me that tolerance is highest on the list of uncharacteristic traits. I think regardless of gender, INTPs tend to be tolerant and easygoing, although that can be dependent on what is being tolerated. I tend to be tolerant of most things, up until a personal boundary is crossed, at which point I switch into rigid intolerance. Perhaps we can come across as intolerant because those boundaries for us are often social, which represents the majority of our interactions with others.
    Last edited by Deckard; 02-20-2017 at 08:41 PM.

  7. #27
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Deckard's Avatar
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    Also, a superficial trend that I find can be a strong indicator of type is someone's choice of username & avatar. Your username screams ENTP to me, and if you'd picked a darkly sexualised fallen angel in bondage type of avatar, I'd have been 95% confident. Also, ENTPs often have an antisocial, iconoclastic streak that separates them from other extroverts. Not that your writing style really suggests ENTP to me, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

  8. #28
    Member helium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbage_Doll View Post
    I feel like I understand emotions very well, especially emotional motivations. In theory, I understand how and why people feel as they do, especially when it is not typical. I understand RAW emotion, not what is expected. I get feedback that I have insight into how people work and that I give good advice. I can be very empathetic and am frequently sought as a confidante to others. BUT, sometimes I think it's because I DON'T take on the emotions of others. I stay calm and resist being influenced by their emotions. I understand it all intellectually. I actually have a intense drive to order and make sense of all emotion, so that even the strangest emotions will be analyzed by me and fit into an idea of how people work in my head.

    So I think I have pretty high intrapersonal intelligence, which is why I identified with INFP for so long. But my interpersonal intelligence is crap. I don't seem to grasp the play of emotions between people.
    My brother tested as INFP and identifies with it. I tested as INTP and identify with it. I also identify with the above description. I tend to be able to analyze intrapersonal dynamics, whereas my brother does not. Yet he gets along with people a lot better than I do, though typically in one-on-one relationships; and I struggle with being seen as cold and distant, even in one-on-one relationships, though people do come to me as a confidante. I can also be highly sensitive, bordering on paranoid, when it comes to interpersonal relationships.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.

  9. #29
    Member Garbage_Doll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
    @Garbage_Doll The discrepancy you're talking about could be a mix of low emotional affect and being overwhelmed by information in a social context. It's easier for me to understand emotional nuances when there's a degree of separation. If I'm personally involved in an emotional exchange IRL, most of my brain is taken up by immediate social processing and I have to detach in order to sift through the web of motivations, judgements, feelings, etc.

    It's strange to me that tolerance is highest on the list of uncharacteristic traits. I think regardless of gender, INTPs tend to be tolerant and easygoing, although that can be dependent on what is being tolerated. I tend to be tolerant of most things, up until a personal boundary is crossed, at which point I switch into rigid intolerance. Perhaps we can come across as intolerant because those boundaries for us are often social, which represents the majority of our interactions with others.
    YES. I am easily, easily overwhelmed, and I often prefer to sit back as a detached observer socially, for this reason. If I am personally involved in a matter and my buttons are pushed (often over a violation of a boundary or principle/value), then I may lash out angrily because of it, hence a rep among close associates for being temperamental. Otherwise, I stay detached, but not without any understanding and I don't feel repulsion at emotions in others (I don't care if others get emotional as long as they aren't lashing out at me or trying to manipulate me or demanding from me).

    I also realized recently how much I detach from and analyze my own emotions. I intellectualize it all instead of feeling it in a physical sense, but then it builds up internally in a physical way. I thought I was very in-tune with my emotions, but it's more like thoughts about emotions. When I do have a strong emotion, it's this enneagram 4ish exaggeration that I build up on purpose as a part of fantasy. I have discovered this is actually a defense against genuine emotional response. I always thought the analyzing part was Feeling in the Jungian sense though, since Feeling was deemed rational by him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard View Post
    Also, a superficial trend that I find can be a strong indicator of type is someone's choice of username & avatar. Your username screams ENTP to me, and if you'd picked a darkly sexualised fallen angel in bondage type of avatar, I'd have been 95% confident. Also, ENTPs often have an antisocial, iconoclastic streak that separates them from other extroverts. Not that your writing style really suggests ENTP to me, but I thought I'd throw that out there.
    Interesting... my screen names are usually metaphors I come up with, although sometimes stolen from song titles. I could see iconoclasm related to being 4w5 or 5w4 in enneagram, but I am also aware it is more of an image for me than a reality .

    I frequently use Siousxie Sioux as an avatar (and she is great example of a more arty NT woman), which may or may not be along the lines you speak of. I'm not into fantasy genre images, but I do like slightly dark things. I should probably get an avatar up now, but then it may be a contrivance after this discussion...ahhhh!

    Quote Originally Posted by helium View Post
    My brother tested as INFP and identifies with it. I tested as INTP and identify with it. I also identify with the above description. I tend to be able to analyze intrapersonal dynamics, whereas my brother does not. Yet he gets along with people a lot better than I do, though typically in one-on-one relationships; and I struggle with being seen as cold and distant, even in one-on-one relationships, though people do come to me as a confidante. I can also be highly sensitive, bordering on paranoid, when it comes to interpersonal relationships.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this.
    Thank you, I appreciate the feedback here. This contrast is exactly what I see with between my INFP best friend and myself.

    I have a hard time letting go of being INFP myself though... and a big part of it is having to dig up my previous understanding of typology and admit that maybe I got it wrong... When I reread Jung & Van Der Hoop, I was reminded that both Thinking types are as concerned (if not MORE) with systems of morality and ethics as Feeling types (perhaps more so). I am reminded that Ti is more conceptual than textbook logic...then I see that I've been ascribing things to Fi that is possibly applicable to both Introverted Rational types. If Isabel Myers got it right, then my conception of Feeling may be the one that is off...

    Cognitively, I am not convinced I have a Ti preference just yet. Inferior Fe is more obvious to me than Ti-dominant, and as much as Te irritates me, I am not really as bad at logistics as I think I am (I think I confuse P preference with poor Te. I am disorganized, late, messy, etc). I get caught up in trying to subvert the typical way of doing things instead of just doing things.

  10. #30
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Deckard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garbage_Doll View Post
    I frequently use Siousxie Sioux as an avatar
    I'd definitely associate her with INFP in terms of avatar tropes, for what that's worth (probably not much). I think emotional affect can be influenced by a number of things independent of the personality archetypes. It can be hard to account for confounding factors that overlap with MBTI traits, and people with developed inferior functions might come across as a different type (like an intellectual INFP coming across as INTP).

    I think perhaps the best method for differentiating is just to read the archetype descriptions and pick which one fits best. If you identify with both archetypes equally, INxP is as valid as anything. Preferences are on a spectrum so the actual categorisation part is just arbitrary delineation anyway.

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