View Poll Results: What are your scores?

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  • Dopamine: 0 - 5

    0 0%
  • Dopamine: 6 - 10

    2 40.00%
  • Dopamine: 11 - 15

    1 20.00%
  • Dopamine: 16 - 20

    0 0%
  • Dopamine: 21 - 26

    2 40.00%
  • Acetylcholine: 0 - 5

    3 60.00%
  • Acetylcholine: 6 - 10

    0 0%
  • Acetylcholine: 11 - 15

    0 0%
  • Acetylcholine: 16 - 20

    0 0%
  • Acetylcholine: 21 - 25

    1 20.00%
  • GABA: 0 - 5

    0 0%
  • GABA: 6 - 10

    1 20.00%
  • GABA: 11 - 15

    1 20.00%
  • GABA: 16 - 20

    0 0%
  • GABA: 21 - 25

    1 20.00%
  • GABA: 26 - 30

    0 0%
  • GABA: 31 - 35

    1 20.00%
  • GABA: 36 - 40

    0 0%
  • Serotonin: 0 - 5

    0 0%
  • Serotonin: 6 - 10

    3 60.00%
  • Serotonin: 11 - 15

    0 0%
  • Serotonin: 16 - 20

    0 0%
  • Serotonin: 21 - 25

    1 20.00%
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Thread: INTPs: how do you score on the Braverman Assessment?

  1. #1
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    INTPs: how do you score on the Braverman Assessment?

    How do you score on the second part of the following quiz: http://advancedpsychcare.tripod.com/...est.pdf#page=7? Reply with the actual scores.
    Last edited by baccheion; 05-06-2017 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Scobblelotcher Sistamatic's Avatar
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    This system is a gross oversimplification of brain chemistry. It's like describing a symphony by stating which notes are played most often and then attempting to rewrite it with a note-specific volume knob that may or may not work.

    You cannot diagnose a chemical deficiency in your brain with a bunch of qualitative personality questions, not even if there is a correlative relationship between those traits and a deficiency. It's more complicated than that. It's a good place to start, but this document implies a level of surety that is irresponsible. In addition, it attributes many potentially severe and life threatening conditions as physical issues associated with brain chemical deficiencies (which again it diagnoses in a purely qualitative way with questions that are often leading and more often, outright problematic in assumptions) and implies that a supplementation regimen is a way to treat them.

    It takes a kernal of reality - the merely correlative relationship between certain mental tendencies and certain brain chemistry differences - and then proceeds as if this correlation is end-all, be-all definitive answer and builds a mountain upon that spurious foundation.

    Dietary modifications can affect the chemistry of the body, including the brain, especially if they address a previously present deficiency. Addressing a deficiency can make a huge difference and whenever I suspect I have an issue, I have been known to attempt to address it with supplements, one at a time, and with much research.

    I wonder if there is a way to take the test and have the results say that you are fine and need no adjustments.

    All that being said, I am curious how people here would score on this test...you know, for the purpose of seeing if this test can reframe what we loosely call "INTPness" as a chemical imbalance that can be addressed with supplementation.

    Edit: I did try...but every single question in here leads me to do research into the correlation between the chemical and the behavior and to want to list the alternate factors that could be involved....in other words, taking this test would take months and I would end up making an encyclopedia of violated assumptions. I'm guessing an enthusiast of the test would prescribe me a supplement to treat this malady, but I like being this way. I get it that it makes it hard to be around me sometimes, but I'm willing to accept that.
    Last edited by Sistamatic; 05-04-2017 at 06:52 PM.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    This system is a gross oversimplification of brain chemistry. It's like describing a symphony by stating which notes are played most often and then attempting to rewrite it with a note-specific volume knob that may or may not work.

    You cannot diagnose a chemical deficiency in your brain with a bunch of qualitative personality questions, not even if there is a correlative relationship between those traits and a deficiency. It's more complicated than that. It's a good place to start, but this document implies a level of surety that is irresponsible. In addition, it attributes many potentially severe and life threatening conditions as physical issues associated with brain chemical deficiencies (which again it diagnoses in a purely qualitative way with questions that are often leading and more often, outright problematic in assumptions) and implies that a supplementation regimen is a way to treat them.

    It takes a kernal of reality - the merely correlative relationship between certain mental tendencies and certain brain chemistry differences - and then proceeds as if this correlation is end-all, be-all definitive answer and builds a mountain upon that spurious foundation.

    Dietary modifications can affect the chemistry of the body, including the brain, especially if they address a previously present deficiency. Addressing a deficiency can make a huge difference and whenever I suspect I have an issue, I have been known to attempt to address it with supplements, one at a time, and with much research.

    I wonder if there is a way to take the test and have the results say that you are fine and need no adjustments.
    There's NutrEval and genetic testing if you're wondering about deficiencies or imbalances. In this case, I'm just curious how other INTPs score. Therefore, what were your results?

  4. #4
    Scobblelotcher Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    There's NutrEval and genetic testing if you're wondering about deficiencies or imbalances. In this case, I'm just curious how other INTPs score. Therefore, what were your results?
    See above edits.

    Also, see this article: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...-you-go-along/ as it presents a good case for how I feel about functional medicine, including NutrEval.

    The last line sums it up nicely:
    What’s good about FM is not unique, and what’s unique about it is not good. My conclusion about FM is, in addition to Harriet’s, that it takes “making it up as you go along” to a whole new level, and that’s not a good thing in medicine.

    Anyway, I think we've had this discussion before, where every piece of data I give you about myself results in you giving me long lists of things I should take to fix me (I'm not broken). Like I mentioned a single snp that I had and you went on to make long lists of supplemental recommendations that I don't want to take, and continued to try to talk me into it for a long time.

    I'm curious how the INTPs here score too, but in addition to the fact that I'm having trouble taking the test for the reasons stated in my above edit, I am also wary of presenting a score where you can see it because I don't want you to spend a bunch of time trying to tailor a treatment for me when I am not in need of one and have no interest in taking one. Other forum members may feel differently about it and that's their prerogative.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    Edit: I did try...but every single question in here leads me to do research into the correlation between the chemical and the behavior and to want to list the alternate factors that could be involved....in other words, taking this test would take months and I would end up making an encyclopedia of violated assumptions. I'm guessing an enthusiast of the test would prescribe me a supplement to treat this malady, but I like being this way. I get it that it makes it hard to be around me sometimes, but I'm willing to accept that.
    Just answer the questions. Obviously many things can cause the symptoms listed. I'm wondering if there'll be any trends and how everyone's scores line up with what they're experiencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    See above edits.

    Also, see this article: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/20...-you-go-along/ as it presents a good case for how I feel about functional medicine, including NutrEval.

    The last line sums it up nicely:


    Anyway, I think we've had this discussion before, where every piece of data I give you about myself results in you giving me long lists of things I should take to fix me (I'm not broken). Like I mentioned a single snp that I had and you went on to make long lists of supplemental recommendations that I don't want to take, and continued to try to talk me into it for a long time.

    I'm curious how the INTPs here score too, but in addition to the fact that I'm having trouble taking the test for the reasons stated in my above edit, I am also wary of presenting a score where you can see it because I don't want you to spend a bunch of time trying to tailor a treatment for me when I am not in need of one and have no interest in taking one. Other forum members may feel differently about it and that's their prerogative.
    If NutrEval, genetic testing, and questionnaires are removed as options, what's left?

    Not what I'm doing here. I remember you said you were Val/Val at rs4680, which made me suggest things that lower COMT (that list is now EGCG and quercetin, with forskolin, vitamin C, and fish oil to round things out). You had some reasons for being against trying what I mentioned, and I remember stating disagreements more than trying to convince.

  6. #6
    Test needs radio buttons so it scores itself, too lazy to add up by hand

  7. #7
    Scobblelotcher Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post

    If NutrEval, genetic testing, and questionnaires are removed as options, what's left?
    None of these things is removed as options. My issues with this questionnaire could be assuaged if the associated materials did not overstate things in a way that could be harmful. The questionnaire by itself is not an issue, it is the way the results are used to diagnose medical conditions that it cannot diagnose and to even suggest treatments for those conditions.

    I have the same issue with "functional medicine" such as NutrEval. There is a discrepancy between the expressed level of efficacy of treatments and the evidence for that efficacy. I do not care if supplements are recommended and taken, what I do care about is a tendency to make implications that are confusing to the layperson about the efficacy of recommendations. The assessment document you linked is loaded with such implications.

    I am a huge fan of genetic testing. I am not a huge fan of combining the result of a genetic test with so-called "functional medicine."

    Questionnaires, nutritional evaluations, and genetic testing can all be extremely important components in health maintenance, but these same tools can be used unethically. The questionnaire you posted has a lot of potential for unethical or ignorant use that could lead to real harm.
    Insults are effective only where emotion is present. -- Spock, "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Stardate 3468.1.

    I'm not avoiding socializing I'm helping socializing avoid me! --MoneyJungle

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by flurps View Post
    Test needs radio buttons so it scores itself, too lazy to add up by hand
    Add them in the browser address bar..

    Quote Originally Posted by Sistamatic View Post
    None of these things is removed as options. My issues with this questionnaire could be assuaged if the associated materials did not overstate things in a way that could be harmful. The questionnaire by itself is not an issue, it is the way the results are used to diagnose medical conditions that it cannot diagnose and to even suggest treatments for those conditions.

    I have the same issue with "functional medicine" such as NutrEval. There is a discrepancy between the expressed level of efficacy of treatments and the evidence for that efficacy. I do not care if supplements are recommended and taken, what I do care about is a tendency to make implications that are confusing to the layperson about the efficacy of recommendations. The assessment document you linked is loaded with such implications.

    I am a huge fan of genetic testing. I am not a huge fan of combining the result of a genetic test with so-called "functional medicine."

    Questionnaires, nutritional evaluations, and genetic testing can all be extremely important components in health maintenance, but these same tools can be used unethically. The questionnaire you posted has a lot of potential for unethical or ignorant use that could lead to real harm.
    You said you dislike tests like NutrEval, as "My conclusion about FM is, in addition to Harriet’s, that it takes “making it up as you go along” to a whole new level, and that’s not a good thing in medicine." Therefore, according to you, it would be off the table.

    Why aren't you a fan of combining NutrEval and genetic testing? Genetic testing shows predispositions, and tests like NutrEval, as they show one's current state, nicely complement genetic testing results.

  9. #9
    schlemiel Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion
    I'm just curious how other INTPs score.
    Hardly needs to be said, its your only function on the forum.
    "All my heroes are dead" - John Zorn

    "It's not selfish if you hate yourself"

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by baccheion View Post
    Add them in the browser address bar.
    How about no, scott

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