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Thread: Why people believed in Jesus's resurrection?

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    Why people believed in Jesus's resurrection?

    Ever since I saw the movie "The Case for Christ" I've been investigating this. Some options as to why people believed in Jesus's resurrection:

    1. Jesus rose from the dead and people saw him

    2. It was a hallucination (e.g. Bart Ehrman, Richard Carrier)

    3. They saw someone else but thought it was Jesus (I think this is a good option in some ways)

    4. It started off as a story/myth and people started to believe it

    A related thing is whether or not Jesus was buried in a tomb. In the past Bart Ehrman has said this was unlikely for people who were crucified. If he was in a tomb the empty tomb story either means Jesus was raised, the body was stolen, they went to the wrong tomb or the story just emerged a while after the supposed event.

    What do you think? I think things like "the Case for Christ" are the best evidence that maybe the supernatural exists. Since I don't believe in the supernatural I am looking for explanations that don't involve Jesus literally being raised from the dead.

    As to why this is important - well the traditional Christian view of hell is that the unsaved go there eternally... if it exists I'd rather not go there though I also don't want to just surrender to Jesus.

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    People claim to witness similarly impossible things all the time in different cultures. I'd start there, and see what makes them able to believe something that didn't happen. You could look at any cult and see how they manage to get people to believe stuff that is obviously crazy. The human mind is easy to manipulate. Also, people who are less mentally strong/independent are the ones drawn to cults, so it's easier for those people to be convinced of something really crazy than we would perceive.

    I'm really not familiar with the whole jesus thing. I grew up in a non-religious way and I was never interested in battling through the religious noise, so I'm on vaguely aware of the whole thing.

    My thoughts:
    - the supposed witnesses lied, for the greater good of making lots of others believe what they wanted.
    - or, it got exaggerated. He didn't actually die first. They cut him down for some reason, and everyone knew that, but it made a good story to say he was brought back to life.
    - he just died. And then later they said he came back to life for whatever reason. Maybe they meant it in a vague metaphorical way, and it morphed into a literal sense.

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarydoor View Post
    People claim to witness similarly impossible things all the time in different cultures. I'd start there, and see what makes them able to believe something that didn't happen. You could look at any cult and see how they manage to get people to believe stuff that is obviously crazy. The human mind is easy to manipulate. Also, people who are less mentally strong/independent are the ones drawn to cults, so it's easier for those people to be convinced of something really crazy than we would perceive....
    Ok

    My thoughts:
    - the supposed witnesses lied, for the greater good of making lots of others believe what they wanted.
    Christians were persecuted though. It doesn't make sense to promote Christianity if you know it is a lie.

    - or, it got exaggerated. He didn't actually die first. They cut him down for some reason, and everyone knew that, but it made a good story to say he was brought back to life.
    It seems that historians, even non-Christian ones, tend to believe that Jesus was crucified and died. (or at least he existed)

    - he just died. And then later they said he came back to life for whatever reason. Maybe they meant it in a vague metaphorical way, and it morphed into a literal sense.
    1 Corinthians was written by Paul about 25 years after the death of Jesus and says:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...15&version=CEV
    "He was buried,
    and three days later
    he was raised to life,
    as the Scriptures say.
    5 Christ appeared to Peter,
    then to the twelve.
    6 After this, he appeared
    to more than five hundred
    other followers.
    Most of them are still alive,
    but some have died.
    7 He also appeared to James,
    and then to all
    of the apostles.
    8 Finally, he appeared to me"

    Paul saw Jesus in a vision which caused him to convert from being an opponent of Christianity. In his time believers believed that Jesus had appeared to many people. I think Paul met with some of the disciples including Peter(?).

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnClay View Post
    Christians were persecuted though. It doesn't make sense to promote Christianity if you know it is a lie.
    I think that really depends on the assumptions you make about the character of the people around back then and their motivations. The impression is that the people back then who were around JC were honest, trustworthy people. And their motivation must surely be purely to uncover the truth. But how can you know that? Look at any religion or cult today and you'll find people who supposedly believe in it completely, yet at the same time use lies to manipulate people. Someone within scientology would say "why would our leaders knowingly lie to us to promote scientology, given that it is a persecuted religion?" But they do. We know that. Maybe scientology catches on, 2000 years pass, and we think back to L. Ron and we just trust 100% that he was honest in everything he said, because why would he possibly lie when his religion was so persecuted?

    It seems that historians, even non-Christian ones, tend to believe that Jesus was crucified and died. (o/r at least he existed)
    I don't know, I'm just speculating. I've skimmed over some random theories about things like that. I think almost anything is possible.

    some people speculating that he didn't really die.

    1 Corinthians was written by Paul about 25 years after the death of Jesus and says:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...15&version=CEV
    "He was buried,
    and three days later
    he was raised to life,
    as the Scriptures say.
    5 Christ appeared to Peter,
    then to the twelve.
    6 After this, he appeared
    to more than five hundred
    other followers.
    Most of them are still alive,
    but some have died.
    7 He also appeared to James,
    and then to all
    of the apostles.
    8 Finally, he appeared to me"

    Paul saw Jesus in a vision which caused him to convert from being an opponent of Christianity. In his time believers believed that Jesus had appeared to many people. I think Paul met with some of the disciples including Peter(?).
    I looked into it, and the reports of people seeing him seem really vague actually. I think it's pretty common to think you see someone you knew after they have died, or disappeared in some way. And as you say, that guy Paul wrote about it 25 years later. Maybe his mind embellished things. There have been numerous experiments showing how untrustworthy our memory can be.

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    BTW in Matthew 11:14 Jesus is saying some believe John might be Elijah. Matthew 16:14 mentions people who believe Jesus is John, Elijah or Jeremiah. Mark 6:14-16 repeats this but also says Herod said about Jesus “This must be John! I had his head cut off, and now he has come back to life”! Also, Mark 8:28, Luke 9:8, Luke 9:19, John 1:21. So people might come to see a stranger as being the risen Jesus even if he didn't look the same.
    Mark 16:12 says he appeared "in a different form" to two people - maybe he looked really different (because he was a different person). Other times he wasn't recongised at first (John 20:14-18 and Luke 24:13-35)

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    The Jews say that Jesus was neither the son of God nor a prophet of God. They claim that He was crucified and died then buried in a tomb but His corpse was stolen by His followers and they made up the story of Him being resurrected to explain the failure of their leader.

    Jesus was not the type of messiah the Jews were expecting so did fail from a Jewish perspective.

    The Muslims say that Jesus was a prophet of God but not the son of God. They claim that He was never crucified and someone else was crucified in His place because God would simply not allow a prophet of His to be killed by His enemies.

    Muslims view God as a mighty warrior than can never be defeated, so God allowing Jesus to be killed makes no sense to them.

    Jesus sacrificing Himself for the sake of sinners only makes sense to Christians.
    On the wrong side of history

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    BTW I found a relevant category in Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ction_of_Jesus

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