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Thread: Christian Apologetics

  1. #181
    Speller AntisocialENTP's Avatar
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    Okay, so we actually have a difference in opinion here.

    I don't believe we should accept anything that is counter to our observations (collective not necessarily personal observations). I don't believe the God hypothesis is counter to any known observation. I do be a spontaneous cause with in our known universe is foreign.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntisocialENTP View Post
    Okay, so we actually have a difference in opinion here.

    I don't believe we should accept anything that is counter to our observations (collective not necessarily personal observations). I don't believe the God hypothesis is counter to any known observation. I do be a spontaneous cause with in our known universe is foreign.
    I haven't accepted anything. I'm open to the possibility that not everything needs to have a cause, because there has been no valid argument to discount that possibility.

    You're drawing more conclusions by saying that 'things that have no cause' are impossible. You haven't provided any valid justification for that.

  3. #183
    Member Thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntisocialENTP View Post
    Just because you have never seen God doesn't mean God doesn't exist isn't a good argument when Christians give it but it's okay when atheist use it to defeat Cause theory.
    Conversely, just because you have never seen God does not confirm existence. If we were to apply your present logic, unicorns exist because we have never seen evidence that they do not.

    Non verifiable causes for natural phenomenon are the birthplaces of religions.

  4. #184
    Speller AntisocialENTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoth View Post
    Conversely, just because you have never seen God does not confirm existence. If we were to apply your present logic, unicorns exist because we have never seen evidence that they do not.

    Nonverifiable causes for a natural phenomenon are the birthplaces of religions.
    If you read my original post you will see this is my point. I am not saying this is my argument. I'm saying it is a bad argument for religion.

  5. #185
    Member rhinosaur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntisocialENTP View Post
    Aquinas's Argument from contingency

    There must be something to explain why the Universe exists. Since the Universe could, under different circumstances, conceivably not exist (contingency), its existence must have a cause – not merely another contingent thing, but something that exists by necessity (something that must exist in order for anything else to exist). In other words, even if the Universe has always existed, it still owes its existence to an Uncaused Cause
    First of all, this is a philosophical idea, and not physical evidence. But to address your point:

    Nearly everything we have observed has a cause, this is true. Let's assume the existence of the universe also has a cause. What evidence do you have that this force is God?

  6. #186
    Member Thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntisocialENTP View Post
    If you read my original post you will see this is my point. I am not saying this is my argument. I'm saying it is a bad argument for religion.
    If you believe there must be a cause for the Big Bang, what makes you think God is the only answer?

  7. #187
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    We cannot observe causality. Causality is something we infer.

    We can no more assert with certainty that a shadow hand has caused a shadow ball to be thrown than we can assert the same about an actual hand and an actual ball. We infer that causality has occurred because of the sequence of things...but of course sequence is just an artifact of perception...the frames of a film strip do not cause one another.

    If anything can arise spontaneously if it's own, without a cause, then we must also afford that possibility to the rest of existence, which could well be arising of its own, without a cause.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

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