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Thread: Who are the Proud Boys?

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Who are the Proud Boys?

    This video borders on fake news. I didn't note any factually incorrect statements. But the facts they selected seemed designed to paint Gavin McInnes, and by extension, the Proud Boys, as antisemitic. I've seen a lot of his content and haven't gotten the impression that he's antisemitic. He's a comic, who is right wing. He's pro-west and anti-radical-Islam.




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    Anti-Classic Horatio's Avatar
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    Producing and publishing an unironic video named "10 Things I Hate About Israel" makes him anti-Israelitic, however, and since Israel is a semitic state, he's presenting himself as anti-semitic in the literal sense. If someone were to produce a serious video named "10 Things I Hate About the United States" and it was delivered in a non-comical, matter-of-fact style, people would label it "anti-American" as well. The only difference being that the United States aren't comprised of a homogenous population so there couldn't be an umbrella term regarding its people.

    I have no opinion on the matter at large but would like to point out that visiting a country and slagging off about it while you're enjoying its hospitality testifies to very poor taste and manners indeed.
    Last edited by Horatio; 07-08-2017 at 03:33 PM.

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Producing and publishing an unironic video named "10 Things I Hate About Israel" makes him anti-Israelitic, however, and since Israel is a semitic state, he's presenting himself as anti-semitic in the literal sense. If someone were to produce a serious video named "10 Things I Hate About the United States" and it was delivered in a non-comical, matter-of-fact style, people would label it "anti-American" as well. The only difference being that the United States aren't comprised of a homogenous population so there couldn't be an umbrella term regarding to its people.

    I have no opinion on the matter at large but would like to point out that visiting a country and slagging off about it while you're enjoying its hospitality testifies to very poor taste and manners indeed.
    It's an ironic video by someone who doesn't pretend to have refined taste. My sense is that he actually has an affinity for Israel.

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    Anti-Classic Horatio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It's an ironic video by someone who doesn't pretend to have refined taste.
    Indeed it would be hard to lay a claim to any kind of taste in that getup.

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    Senior Member Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Indeed it would be hard to lay a claim to any kind of taste in that getup.
    That's not fair after watching just one Gavin video. Here's one where he shows his fashion sense. It features some opera music too. Talk about good taste. Forget about it!


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    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Indeed it would be hard to lay a claim to any kind of taste in that getup.
    Ha, I've watched several of McInnes' Youtube videos (honestly I find him neither particularly funny nor a particularly insightful political commentator, even in terms of being a way for me to keep up on what's going on in contemporary conservatism).

    Ironically (oh no, not irony) he strikes me as the kind of person who would detest most Portland hipsters even more than I do, but he typically seems to be dressed and groomed exactly like one of them.

    Maybe that's intentional and part of his act somehow?



    I don't know a ton about the "Proud Boys", but I keep reading about their involvement in these "protest marches" where a bunch of people show up with intentions more along the lines of finding their counterparts on the opposing side to get into recreational brawls with.

    I don't have a ton of regard for that behavior regardless of the ideological alignments of the groups involved. Whether it's Antifa, the Proud Boys, or the "Oath Keepers" the whole thing strikes me as distinctly reminiscent of the formally organized soccer-hooligan clubs that are evidently popular in Europe.

    Can't say I'm terribly happy to see that particular cultural tradition being imported into the US. If nothing else, at least here when a riot breaks out somewhere over anything, most of us seem to regard it as an anomalous and troubling event, not something we just shrug off as a normal aspect of, e.g., sporting events, politics, or anything else.

    (Unless you live in Madison, Wisconsin, where there's apparently an informal annual tradition called the "Halloween Riot" where a bunch of college students and teenagers drink heavily and get into street fights with each other all over the city--but I've read Wisconsin has the highest rates of alcoholism and excessive drinking in general in the country, and after growing up right across the river from Wisconsin the idea that the whole state is mostly populated by drunks doesn't exactly seem counter-intuitive to me.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

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    凸(ಠ_ರೃ )凸 stuck's Avatar
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    yes yes we know that "civic nationalists" like to use Nazis as a strawman and Israel as a wedge issue.

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    singularity precursor Limey's Avatar
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    I think I have that same Fred Perry shirt somewhere. There are a lot of Chinese knock offs of them floating about though.
    Chris Brown did nothing wrong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I didn't note any factually incorrect statements.
    The commentator said that the leader of proud boys made a video about "10 things he hates about jews," when in fact he posted a video about 10 things he hates about isreal. Not liking the food portions in irseal isn't exactly anti semitic. I mean what's next? If I visited India and complained that I didn't like vegetarian curry dishes then would that mean I hate hindus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Producing and publishing an unironic video named "10 Things I Hate About Israel"
    The trivial nature of his complaints and use of accents for comedic effect tempted me into believing that he was being facetious. If it was a legitimate anti semitic video it probably would have been taken down by now for hate speech.

  10. #10
    Member Guess Who's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Producing and publishing an unironic video named "10 Things I Hate About Israel" makes him anti-Israelitic, however, and since Israel is a semitic state, he's presenting himself as anti-semitic in the literal sense. If someone were to produce a serious video named "10 Things I Hate About the United States" and it was delivered in a non-comical, matter-of-fact style, people would label it "anti-American" as well. The only difference being that the United States aren't comprised of a homogenous population so there couldn't be an umbrella term regarding its people.

    I have no opinion on the matter at large but would like to point out that visiting a country and slagging off about it while you're enjoying its hospitality testifies to very poor taste and manners indeed.
    I have lived in South Korea, speak Korean and am married to a Korean. Overall, I have a great fondness for Korea yet I could make a list of things I don't like about Korea. I don't believe that making such a list would make me anti-Korean or racist. I could probably find some Koreans who would agree with me about some of the things on my list. My wife points out things she doesn't like about Australia. I think her criticisms of Australia are reasonable for someone from a different culture to make. Even I can agree with some of her citicisms of Australia.

    Koreans criticise the Chinese for speaking very loudly in public and criticise the Japanese for not being honest and open about how they really feel. Criticising other cultures is not just a Western thing.

    I listened to his list and the things on his list didn't seem that extreme or totally unreasonable to me. I haven't been to Israel, so I can't say whether I agree or disagree with the things on his list. He was mostly criticising aspects of Israeli culture, not the Jewish people as a whole wherever they live in the world. When he did criticise an aspect of Jewish culture in general, it was to say that he thinks that they would be better off if they changed in a particular regard. That is not the sort of thing someone motivated by hate would say. I wouldn't consider him to be Anti-Semitic based on that video he made.

    The journalist in the first video was quite loose with her language. This might have been deliberate but was probably an automatic ingrained response that considers any criticism of Israel to be Anti-Semitism. A list of things he hates about Israel -> A list of things he hates about the Jews -> Anti-Semitic hate speech ???

    The only country in the world that is truly above criticism is New Zealand.
    Last edited by Guess Who; 07-11-2017 at 11:30 AM.
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