View Poll Results: Is ADHD real?

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  • Yes.

    21 63.64%
  • No.

    5 15.15%
  • Jar Jar Binks

    7 21.21%
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Thread: ADHD

  1. #21
    Tsundoku LordLatch's Avatar
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    I think it's real and it shouldn't treated with drugs even though I think there are physical abnormalities(probably chemical) and well as behavioral.

    Naturally I'm not qualified in any way other than I've lived it. I'm not going to share what I think causes it because my dataset is too small and I have up to this point failed to codify a questionnaire that may help solidify my position.

    Suffice it to say, I have greatly lowered the effect of my own ADD without substances.
    Stand clear of the closing doors, please.

  2. #22
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    I'm being facetious. They are symptoms that can seem individualized but which occur with such a high-frequency among the population that its virtually guaranteed that you'll tick some of them, if not almost all of them.

    Similarly, we can also accept that there are clashes between a person's behaviour, their culture/environment/society/activities, and chemical ways to change said behaviours. No one seriously argues that isn't the case.

    Similarly, physical observations of human brain function/form are not usually the mode of diagnosis for most "mental health conditions" for lack of a better word.

    And lastly, these mental health conditions are almost always in some social context. In many of the ADHD contexts, it is very frequent for someone to come on and say "of course my X is real, this happens to me!". Failing to realise not only that it frequently happen to everyone, but that it is based on a social/cultural belief system that designates people as being damaged when they can't live up to a certain cultural belief/value system. Its even more damaging when that cultural belief/value system is based on falsities/false representations of reality: such as the notion that there really are healthy people who can sit and pay attention in class, just sit down and write things, that everyone isn't forgetful, or attempts to hide power/value imbalances by implying one person's perspective is objectively true.

  3. #23
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    Clearly, we're all human. That doesn't make us all equal. That's sort of like elbowing the paraplegic in the wheelchair and saying, "Hey, I sprained my ankle one time. I get it. We're all in the same boat," or telling the blind woman, "Yeah, my night vision is kind of shitty - I'm thinking maybe I need a guide dog."
    No one, (well ok, not me), is denying the reality of people's experiences. This is one of the harder points of discussing mental illnesses or the psycho-social phenomenon of them. People get emotionally attached to the labels, and when people start introspecting on the context of those labels or the nature of mental illness in any way, they take this as a personal attack, not as a discussion to be had about the nature of mental illness.

    If you can point out something I've said somewhere that is factually incorrect, I would be happy to debate it.

    Blindness, colourblindness, astigmatism, far/short sightedness is an interesting case because we generally have relatively quantifiable, physical, and measurable ways of assessing such things. Subsequently, we also have many different words for all these conditions of the eye. Are there many such tests for ADHD? Can we quantify it in such a way? Is it based on measurements? Its also worth pointing out that the human eye is not perfect. Indeed, it is possible to think of eye function which is better than 20-20/sees in a wider-spectrum. Eye performance tends to deteriorate with age. At what point does a language imply one is a disorder/problem vs being relatively normal/societally acceptable? Can we think of a society/future/species where 20/20 vision is considered a disorder?

    Do you have these symptoms frequently and intensely enough that they seriously impair your ability to function? If yes, then that's a disorder. If no, then it's not.
    Well there you have to define function, don't you? And classically for us humans, function is usually designated with reference to a particular time/society/context, which is one of my earlier points.

    I've heard your argument from many people. Those who spend time around me quickly realize how bullshit of an argument it is. I've got neuropsych evals from ages 17 and 20, both showing numerous executive function and memory tests where I performed worse than >99% of my demographic. If that doesn't constitute a disorder, then the word "disorder" is completely without meaning.
    I'm feeling feisty tonight, so its taking a bit of self-control to make me be conciliatory right now. But its not about you. The symptoms you listed in your earlier post practically apply to us all. That's that. Me, personally, i'm here to talk about ADHD itself, its particular phenomenon as a noun, its diagnosis, its context, not about whether a particular person "has it"...whatever that means exactly. That doesn't mean either that your experiences didn't happen, or that they are any less "real".

  4. #24
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    What one might interpret as an attack, another can interpret as an observation.

    /i said i'm not trying to be flamey :P
    //my wife says I can come across like a hostile cop in an interrogation.
    Last edited by ACow; 01-19-2014 at 08:59 AM.

  5. #25
    New Member Mercurial's Avatar
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    *prescribes ACow ABeer*

    I can't read a freaking article without having Synaptol ads (a homeopathic) shoved in my face. Trying to pull real data on IT just turns up more Synaptol ads. >.<

  6. #26
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    Given the high incidence of ADHD/ADD and it's continuing persistence, it's quite possible that in the right environment, it has evolutionary survival value. There is the hunter/farmer hypothesis, which proposes that ADHD-like behavior is consistent with being a good hunter (and a lousy farmer). Being a good hunter, at least in prehistoric times, required the ability to move fast and far (hyperactivity), change courses quickly, and be oblivious to fear. In a typical hunter/gatherer group, only a few good hunters are needed to provide meat for many people and the incidence of ADHD/ADD or 3-5% is consistent with this idea. These same traits are maladaptive in modern society and that's the problem. Interestingly, exercise and being outdoors (particularly in nature) tend to calm people with ADHD.

  7. #27
    creator kari's Avatar
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    It's real in the same way schizophrenia is real. Just a psychiatric label to group "symptoms" and quell 'em. Whether it's moral to dish out treatment so readily is another matter.
    I fucking hate the cold! - Wim Hof

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by kali View Post
    It's real in the same way schizophrenia is real. Just a psychiatric label to group "symptoms" and quell 'em. Whether it's moral to dish out treatment so readily is another matter.
    The argument could also be made that it is immoral not to treat it, particularly in extreme cases. People who truly have the correct diagnosis struggle and do poorly in life compared to those without the disorder. They suffer. I don't see why it is okay to treat diabetes medically, which is characterized by insulin insufficiency or resistance but it is not okay to treat ADHD medically, which is characterized by dopamine insufficiency in the pre-frontal cortex. Stimulants enhance synaptic dopamine concentrations by re-uptake inhibition and other mechanisms. The problem is that there is a strong stigma attached to using medications for neurological disorders that relate to behavior, thought, attention, etc. For most people, this stigma is emotion, not logic, based.

  9. #29
    Member Zephyrus's Avatar
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    All I know is that adderall has allowed me to:
    1. Maintain my composure when I get pissed off.
    2. Far more easily read facial expressions and appropriately respond to social situations.
    3. Establish myself as a group member in social environments such as work, instead of finding myself ostracized.
    4. Avoid making 2 or more times the number of mistakes normal people make on a task.
    5. Maintain a relatively clean environment and organize my belonging (e.g. Keeping the sink clean is easy, when before dishes would pile up for months).
    6. I was able to understand Mathematics, although this ability only lasted the first two months and is now gone.

    Also:
    1. My friends and family have mentioned that I am more fun and pleasant to be around.
    2. I have been able to maintain a job for longer than 2 months.

    In short, adderall has greatly improved my quality of life, so don't you fucking dare take it away from me!

  10. #30
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathogenetic_peripatetic View Post
    The easy one that isn't really very effective but requires no effort.
    Admittedly, a despair induced fugue state is more difficult and more effective--at least when it comes to getting little organizational things like housework done. At times I've wished I could trigger one voluntarily just because of how much I'd get done.
    People think they understand their own mortality, even when that understanding has just changed.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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