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Thread: Free will is active attention - an argument for compatibilism

  1. #11
    Meae Musae Servus Hephaestus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowIQLogan View Post
    People who don't believe that games are simple are in denial over how complicated life is.
    I figure the reason games are popular is because they are simplifications.
    --Mention of these things is so taboo, they aren't even allowed a name for the prohibition. It is just not done.

  2. #12
    Perfect is Shit LowIQLogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOI View Post
    I figure the reason games are popular is because they are simplifications.
    Ya that is really just a bastardization of Jon Von Neumann saying "If people do not believe that mathematics is simple, it is only because they do not realize how complicated life is." that doesn't work as well. I agree its dumb twice over.
    "A new immortal appeared in front of you. Would you like preparations of inception?"

    aka HappyNoodleBoy

  3. #13
    Member QuickTwist's Avatar
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    Everything is a game. I just don't think that necessitates that that means free will exists. Also, Math is a highly abstract thing. This shouldn't be underestimated.

  4. #14
    Utisz's Avatar
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    I'm still stuck on trying to understand what's the difference between free will and no free will though.

    (i like the playing the demo screen metaphor though ... I remember doing that as a kid in the arcade by the beach with no money and just opting to go with it ... also why do beaches have arcades nearby?)

  5. #15
    Senior Member Starjots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utisz View Post
    I'm still stuck on trying to understand what's the difference between free will and no free will though.
    I smell chum in the water. Where does this concept of free will originate? The earliest I know of is from Sunday School, that God gave us free will so he could burn us eternally or promote us with a clear conscious.

    Since this is a null program, perhaps this is a distraction after all and better questions are left unasked.

  6. #16
    Perfect is Shit LowIQLogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utisz View Post
    I'm still stuck on trying to understand what's the difference between free will and no free will though.

    (i like the playing the demo screen metaphor though ... I remember doing that as a kid in the arcade by the beach with no money and just opting to go with it ... also why do beaches have arcades nearby?)
    I think this is because beaches are stay-cation type tourist destinations that people with kids go to.

    Playing the demoscreen is common enough that newer japanese music game machines actually do allow you to play during the demo. Groovecoaster will let you press teh buttons while its going through its demo loop for example. This just sets you up for the real mind fuck of when you actually try to play though. For the first time (around me at least) these machines are showing up in american arcades without any translations done at all. Trying to navigate the insane japanese arcade ui when you have a literal drumset as your only buttons will make anyone question their free will. I mean come on japan buttons outlined in green are to go back and the red buttons are to start, is that cultural or are you just fucking with me? And if you do manage to actually select a mode to play afterwards you'll find yourself pouring jewels and kittens into some tamagotchi plant (needing inputs from the drum set of course) until it gets uploaded into what I assume is a high score leader board?? Who knows, sometimes you end up knowing more by giving up at the demoscreen.
    "A new immortal appeared in front of you. Would you like preparations of inception?"

    aka HappyNoodleBoy

  7. #17
    Utisz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowIQLogan View Post
    Playing the demoscreen is common enough that newer japanese music game machines actually do allow you to play during the demo. Groovecoaster will let you press teh buttons while its going through its demo loop for example. This just sets you up for the real mind fuck of when you actually try to play though. For the first time (around me at least) these machines are showing up in american arcades without any translations done at all. Trying to navigate the insane japanese arcade ui when you have a literal drumset as your only buttons will make anyone question their free will. I mean come on japan buttons outlined in green are to go back and the red buttons are to start, is that cultural or are you just fucking with me? And if you do manage to actually select a mode to play afterwards you'll find yourself pouring jewels and kittens into some tamagotchi plant (needing inputs from the drum set of course) until it gets uploaded into what I assume is a high score leader board?? Who knows, sometimes you end up knowing more by giving up at the demoscreen.
    Reminds me a lot of the time I was dating my chilean ex.

  8. #18
    Amen P-O's Avatar
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    Free will is not a scientific proposition. Or at least, any attempt to define free will as a scientific proposition will ultimately end up being logically incoherent.

    Free will is a way of looking at, and talking about the world. The proposition that free will exists means that agents are capable of choice. Agents (those who have free will) are morally responsible for their actions. This isn't mutually exclusive to determinism (which IS a scientific proposition). Along with this often comes the idea that the ability to choose is a moral good. Denying people the freedom to choose their fate (and the responsibility that comes with it) is immoral and should be avoided.

    The other way of looking at the world says that there's no such thing as "agents", and choice doesn't exist. It says that we should ignore the illusion of agency and instead focus on the large scale systems that control the behavior of groups of "people" so that we can get whatever result we desire.

    Of course, even most people who deny the existence of free will and agency, talk and act as if agents exist...
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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