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Thread: The Masculinization of Society

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Wearing armor is not being vulnerable. Knowing about vulnerability is not the same as being vulnerable. Men are great at being guarded. Doesn't mean that they understand vulnerability.
    mens traditional role has been to be the protector and provider for the family

    the people who ideologically want to refashion society into a state-socialist technocracy controlled by a handful of all powerful people want to destroy that dynamic as they want the STATE to be the protector and provider for all people

    To achieve this they are trying to turn women against men in order to break up the family unit. The state then steps in and provides for the woman and offers her protection under an increasingly orwellian surveillance state

    Big brother will protect you and provide for you but you must do everything big brother tells you to do...or else
    Last edited by mara; 11-19-2017 at 10:01 PM.

  2. #32
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mara View Post
    mens traditional role has been to be the protector and provider for the family

    the people who ideologically want to refashion society into a state-socialist technocracy controlled by a handful of all powerful people want to destroy that dynamic as they want the STATE to be the protector and provider for all people

    To achieve this they are trying to turn women against men in order to break up the family unit. The state then steps in and provides for the woman and offers her protection under an increasingly orwellian surveillance state

    Big brother will protect you and provide for you but you must do everything big brother tells you to do...or else
    This is a possibility...but I don't think it's the necessary outcome of men learning a skill set that's outside of the protector/provider role. I mean, I want more from life than just that role. There's more to us than just being macho...there's a deep wound in the collective male psyche, I think...the wound of being expendable...of working to make money to be spent on and/or by other people. There are obviously going to be growing pains as we out grow that phase of male social participation...but it is worth it.

    Also, I do want the state to take care of me, too. I want universal healthcare, and fire protection, and dental benefits, and a pension, and public snow clearing, and unions and so forth. I want good roads, and public buildings, and even for a lot of services to be publicly owned and run as non-profits. Heck, universal basic income is gonna be totally socialist...but totally necessary, too. The scary socialism meme just doesn't work on me...and it always strikes me as peculiar to see the term 'Orwellian' used with an anti-socialist tone, since Orwell/Blair was a lefty himself. It really ought to indicate anti-worst case-socialism...but not anti-socialism entirely.
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    This is a possibility...but I don't think it's the necessary outcome of men learning a skill set that's outside of the protector/provider role. I mean, I want more from life than just that role.
    at the moment you are only thinking of yourself but wait until you become a father....you may feel differently

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    There's more to us than just being macho...there's a deep wound in the collective male psyche, I think...the wound of being expendable...
    society has depended heavily on mens willingness to sacrifice themselves for the survival of the community yes

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    of working to make money to be spent on and/or by other people. There are obviously going to be growing pains as we out grow that phase of male social participation...but it is worth it.
    how do you know its going to be worth it? please tell me what you think comes next

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Also, I do want the state to take care of me, too. I want universal healthcare, and fire protection, and dental benefits, and a pension, and public snow clearing, and unions and so forth. I want good roads, and public buildings, and even for a lot of services to be publicly owned and run as non-profits.
    well that's a mixed economy of public and private; that is not a fullblown state-socialist technocracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Heck, universal basic income is gonna be totally socialist...but totally necessary, too.
    really?

    why is it totally necessary? why don't we just ensure that people are employed and able to earn a decent wage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    The scary socialism meme just doesn't work on me...and it always strikes me as peculiar to see the term 'Orwellian' used with an anti-socialist tone, since Orwell/Blair was a lefty himself. It really ought to indicate anti-worst case-socialism...but not anti-socialism entirely.
    if you actually read orwells books such a 'homage to catalonia' where orwell went to spain to fight in the international brigades against fascism you will learn that the leftwing groups all turned on each other and became incredibly authoritarian. Orwell was imprisoned and had to flee the country

    he worked for the BBC in the propaganda department during world war 2 and learned there about the plans of the fabian socialists who were funded from the very beginning by powerful banking interests. he then retreated to a quiet scottish island to write a book called '1984' to warn the public about the ideas that were being discussed among the fabians.

    Big brother was 'INGSOC' or english socialism. he was warning against the encroachment of an all powerful state run by powerful oligarchs or what he calls in the book 'oligarchic collectivism'
    Last edited by mara; 11-20-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  4. #34
    Dr.Awkward Robcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mara View Post
    at the moment you are only thinking of yourself but wait until you become a father....you may feel differently
    I have 3 kids. I'm happy to be a protector/provider, yes, but I also want to be an example for my kids of a life well lived...and I believe that consists of much more than being a mere provider.

    society has depended heavily on mens willingness to sacrifice themselves for the survival of the community yes

    how do you know its going to be worth it? please tell me what you think comes next
    How is it going to be better when I'm not seen as expendable fodder existing mostly for the sake of helping the young and fertile to survive? you tell me.

    really?

    why is it(UBI) totally necessary? why don't we just ensure that people are employed and able to earn a decent wage?
    This popular Buckminster Fuller quote sums it up quite adequately:
    “We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”

    If I didn't have to earn a living, I'd spend more time with my wife and kids doing meaningful things like gardening, building, philosophizing and creating art.

    if you actually read orwells books such a 'homage to catalonia' where orwell went to spain to fight in the international brigades against fascism you will learn that the leftwing groups all turned on each other and became incredibly authoritarian. Orwell was imprisoned and had to flee the country

    he worked for the BBC in the propaganda department during world war 2 and learned there about the plans of the fabian socialists who were funded from the very beginning by powerful banking interests. he then retreated to a quiet scottish island to write a book called '1984' to warn the public about the ideas that were being discussed among the fabians.

    Big brother was 'INGSOC' or english socialism. he was warning against the encroachment of an all powerful state run by powerful oligarchs or what he calls in the book 'oligarchic collectivism'
    Do you think Oligarchic collectivism = socialism? because I don't.
    I think that such fascist oligarchies are possible/likely, but that they are not sufficient deterrents to convince me that actual socialism should be avoided. Socialism is not fascism, and it is really doublethink to say so. Black is not white; white is not black...fascism is not socialism.

    Orwell was highly critical of the left, because he was a lefty...he believed that the left had to be honed, and self-critical, in order to preserve its integrity.

    An excerpt from the foreword by Thomas Pynchon in my copy of 1984:

    He[Orwell/Blair] had gone to Spain in 1937 to fight against Franco and his Nazi-supported fascists, and there he quickly learned the difference between real and phony antifascism. "The Spanish war and other events in 1936-7," he wrote ten years later, "turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I know it."
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
    "The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense, not between right and wrong." ~Carl Jung

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mara View Post
    mens traditional role has been to be the protector and provider for the family

    the people who ideologically want to refashion society into a state-socialist technocracy controlled by a handful of all powerful people want to destroy that dynamic as they want the STATE to be the protector and provider for all people

    To achieve this they are trying to turn women against men in order to break up the family unit. The state then steps in and provides for the woman and offers her protection under an increasingly orwellian surveillance state

    Big brother will protect you and provide for you but you must do everything big brother tells you to do...or else
    Cool. I christen you Conservabot.




    Fun alt-right generator.

    http://palaceofnero.com/misc/altright.html


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    I have 3 kids. I'm happy to be a protector/provider, yes, but I also want to be an example for my kids of a life well lived...and I believe that consists of much more than being a mere provider.
    yeah you are a protector too. You are in fulltime standby ready to protect your family

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    How is it going to be better when I'm not seen as expendable fodder existing mostly for the sake of helping the young and fertile to survive? you tell me.
    have you ever heard of the expression 'jumping from the frying pan into the fire'?

    so at the moment you feel exploited because you have to work for a living and i agree with you that we work too much. i like you would like more spare time and i like you believe that is achievable but sadly you and me are not getting together with likeminded people to work out solutions to achieve that

    However there IS a group of people getting together to fulfill THEIR vision of how society should be and in THEIR vision of society you are completely replaced by machines meaning that you have become TOTALLY expendable whereas before you had a use to both your family and to society (to who you paid taxes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    This popular Buckminster Fuller quote sums it up quite adequately:
    “We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living.”

    If I didn't have to earn a living, I'd spend more time with my wife and kids doing meaningful things like gardening, building, philosophizing and creating art.
    absolutely man i don't wanna work all day either and we can discuss ideas about what our perfect work/life balance is and how to achieve that but what i am flagging up here is what the ACTUAL trajectory of society is on and on that trajectory we are being totally REPLACED.....you dig?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Do you think Oligarchic collectivism = socialism? because I don't.
    I personally always called 'socialism' when the workers owned and controlled the means of production but what most people mean when they say 'socialism' is when the GOVERNMENT owns and controls the means of production and in our society the government is captured by the oligarchs

    So oligarchic collectivism is when the oligarchs control the rest of the population in a neo-fuedal set up where everyone is kept in a state of perpetual serfdom while the oligarchs live it up in luxury

    This was what orwell portrayed in his other book 'animal farm' where the farm animals had a revolution and kicked the humans off the farm. The revolutionary leaders were the pigs (which could represent the bolsheviks) who then took over the farmhouse and put the other animals to work outside. While the other animals worked themselves to death the pigs enjoyed all the fruits of the farm, feasting at the kitchen table in the warm and comfort of the farm house.

    The pigs are the oligarchs who are currently carrying out a revolution FROM ABOVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    I think that such fascist oligarchies are possible/likely, but that they are not sufficient deterrents to convince me that actual socialism should be avoided. Socialism is not fascism, and it is really doublethink to say so. Black is not white; white is not black...fascism is not socialism.
    different people define fascism in different ways. So one definition sees fascism as when state and corporate power merge which is most definately what we have in the west. However the corporate oligarchs NEED a powerful state apparatus eg a police state in order to control the workers: us

    So their ideal system is state-socialism where there is a command and control economy through which the oligarchs can direct all human activity and transactions and that is what they are leading us into

    Quote Originally Posted by Robcore View Post
    Orwell was highly critical of the left, because he was a lefty...he believed that the left had to be honed, and self-critical, in order to preserve its integrity.

    An excerpt from the foreword by Thomas Pynchon in my copy of 1984:

    He[Orwell/Blair] had gone to Spain in 1937 to fight against Franco and his Nazi-supported fascists, and there he quickly learned the difference between real and phony antifascism. "The Spanish war and other events in 1936-7," he wrote ten years later, "turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I know it."
    Most people get their information from the corporate media and the education system which are both controlled by the monopoly-capitalist oligarchs. That media and education system are calling state-socialism and all the cultural marxism pushed down by the oligarchs 'the left' but really what they are calling 'the left' is actually the project of the oligarchs

    If you are looking for something which empowers the workers and not the oligarchs then you would need to find something that decentralises power down to the people and away from the central controllers ie something that is not collectivist. Both fascism and communism have both proven themselves to be collectivist where the rights of the individual are superceded by the overall collective.

    So really what you should be campaigning for is DECENTRALISATION which is the total opposite of the state-socialism offered by the monopolist oligarchs and dressed up by the corporate media as the 'progressive left'...now THAT'S orwellian doublespeak!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker View Post
    Cool. I christen you Conservabot.
    i don't deserve the name as i am actually all for positive change

    i just don't believe that all change is good change

    some kinds of change can be terrible!

    so i'm 'conservative' at times where i want the brakes applied to avoid a bad change while i'm 'liberal' at other times where i want positive change

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