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Thread: Human Driven Work Robots

  1. #1
    Senior Member Starjots's Avatar
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    Human Driven Work Robots

    I heard the term Negroponte Switch a lot when back in the early 90s when I worked in telecomm.

    He suggested that due to accidents of engineering history we had ended up with static devices such as televisions receiving their content via signals travelling over the airways, while devices which should have been mobile and personal such as telephones were receiving their content over static cables. It was his idea that a better use of available communication resource would result if the information (such as phone calls) going through the cables was to go through the air, and that going through the air (such as TV programmes) was to be delivered via cables.
    Pretty much spot on prediction from the 80's I'd say.

    Through limits in technology the contents of our mind are (mostly) delivered in person requiring our bodies to spend most of their mobility efforts getting to and from work. Our entertainment is mostly virtual, delivered to our stationary bodies. Two weeks of vacation for starting workers in the US seals the deal.

    Wouldn't it be a better use of human mobility to use it on entertainment and use the virtual aspect of our lives more for work as technology allows? Yes, telework makes this possible to some extent for the information workers, but they still seem to travel a lot. The perfection of human plus capable robots remotely operated by human intelligence seems one possible and logical future trend.

    Likewise, time could be freed up to live life with more travel, local or otherwise. You go somewhere for your pleasure, not because you have to.

    A simple example of this today is drone pilots.

    To make this possible, cheap but capable robots are required. These need not look like people (drone example), but be tailored to the job category.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    That makes too much sense. How about robot driven work humans, that seems more realistic.

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    I think that if you are a monopoly-capitalist oligarch then robots look like a great idea. You don't have to pay them and they don't need to take any holidays and they won't ever strike or take you to a tribunal

    However that's not much help to humans....

    saudi arabia has just granted legal citizenship to artificial intelligence. This means that they believe that AI should have the same rights as you and they have already enshrined that in law. I expect many more countries to follow suit and for AI to take over more and more of the running of society leaving humans as largely redundant

    Humans meanwhile will be increasingly merged with that AI for example through implantable technology and even neural laces attached to our brains that create a virtual augmented reality so that say 70% of what you are seeing in your day isn't even real

    What this trend is trending towards is a hive mind or to borrow a term from pop culture: the borg

    In order for the AI to be able to communicate and control ALL electrical appliances it will need what CIA chief general petreus called 'the internet of things'. This will be part of a 'SMART' grid of interconnected devices all controlled ultimately by the AI

    This will of course require a wifi field to be created so that the devices can all communicate even when there are no physical cables. Google and facebook are working on beaming wifi down onto the entire globe from satellites.This is a problem for humans however as wifi uses microwaves which are bad for our health

    here's an ex british naval microwaves expert speaking about the dangers of wifi and microwaves:


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    Senior Member Starjots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flurps View Post
    That makes too much sense. How about robot driven work humans, that seems more realistic.
    Given current happenings I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by mara View Post
    I think that if you are a monopoly-capitalist oligarch then robots look like a great idea. You don't have to pay them and they don't need to take any holidays and they won't ever strike or take you to a tribunal

    However that's not much help to humans....
    The idea was to pay the humans for the brain power to drive the robots. And yes, they'd probably figure out a way to make a doctor earn about $8 an hour claiming the hardware costs are so high.

    Another possibly negative outcome, assuming cheap dumb human driven bots. They (capitalists) could argue for importing mind labor from cheaper areas just as manufacturing often got outsourced to cheaper labor countries. Then everyone gets an average of $8 an hour and it costs 50K a year to go to college.

    saudi arabia has just granted legal citizenship to artificial intelligence. This means that they believe that AI should have the same rights as you and they have already enshrined that in law. I expect many more countries to follow suit and for AI to take over more and more of the running of society leaving humans as largely redundant
    This is about dumb robots, but the Saudi robot thing certainly qualifies as ironic in my book, and you have to be careful when you say ironic around here.

    Humans meanwhile will be increasingly merged with that AI for example through implantable technology and even neural laces attached to our brains that create a virtual augmented reality so that say 70% of what you are seeing in your day isn't even real
    True, we could end up one fucked up hot mess of bio and hardware. To project back 1000 years, such ideas could be the equivalent of the utopian peasant based society. Serf's up.

    In order for the AI to be able to communicate and control ALL electrical appliances it will need what CIA chief general petreus called 'the internet of things'. This will be part of a 'SMART' grid of interconnected devices all controlled ultimately by the AI
    Since this is hypothetical, such a way of doing things would be one way to limit roles and development of AI to some extent. Require a human in the loop for most things. This is not the trend of things at the moment though.

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    凸(ಠ_ರೃ )凸 stuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flurps View Post
    That makes too much sense. How about robot driven work humans, that seems more realistic.
    >roko's basilisk has deposited 45 calories in your account

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    Humanoid robot doing acrobatics:

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    Senior Member Space Invaders Champion Fitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnClay View Post
    Humanoid robot doing acrobatics:
    I got way too excited hoping this was you doing acrobatics.

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    Married Mouth-breather JohnClay's Avatar
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    I think that people will define more and more generalised goals and the AI would figure out what to do and possibly refuse it if there were ethical or practical problems. An example would be self-driving cars. Then you could have a manual override like in the case of steering, etc, in a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnClay View Post
    I think that people will define more and more generalised goals and the AI would figure out what to do and possibly refuse it if there were ethical or practical problems. An example would be self-driving cars. Then you could have a manual override like in the case of steering, etc, in a car.
    there is a massive push for driverless cars with governments using vast sums of public money for research and to prepare the roads

    imo a lot of the so called 'terror' attacks we have seen in recent times involving vehicles have been orchestrated by the intelligence services sometimes with the help or exploitation of wahhabist assets. This is to make people believe that human controlled vehicles are dangerous so that we then agree to adopt driverless cars

    However once you accept driverless cars you hand away your freedom of movement because not only can your vehicle be tracked but it can also be programmed by an outside party to take you somewhere you didn't intend to go

    In fact the mechanical components in cars have for a while now been replaced by motors which are guided by a computer so instead of for example you turning the steering wheel and that then turning a rod that then mechanically turned the steering arms of the front wheels we now turn a steering wheel which then sends an electrical signal down to a motor which then turns the steering arms of the wheels

    The problem with this is that if someone hacks into that motor they can then takeover the steering of your car and it has been proven that some modern cars are now hackable for that reason:



    Some people believe that there have been assassinations carried out in recent years through the hacking of the targets vehicle before ramming it into a fixed object at speed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starjots View Post
    The idea was to pay the humans for the brain power to drive the robots. And yes, they'd probably figure out a way to make a doctor earn about $8 an hour claiming the hardware costs are so high.
    That isn't the plan though. What is actually happening is that they are STUDYING human behaviours so that artificial intelligence will be able to takeover increasingly complicated tasks. Lets say you are a book keeper. The technology will be provided to you to assist you with your book keeping but at the same time it will be studying what you do so that it can then ultimately replace you and make you redundant.

    There are humans currently travelling around in driverless cars who are guiding the car by keeping their hands on the steering wheel. The human driver fools himself that he has a job, but what he is doing is teaching the car to drive itself and soon the driver will be dispensed with. Of course you have to visually map all the roads which is why google sent those vehicles around all the streets of the world with cameras creating 'google world'. Google has its roots in DAARPA and the pentagon.

    All those people who make their living from driving eg taxi drivers (many of which are immigrants), lorry drivers, van drivers, delivery people, postal people etc will all lose their jobs in the near future

    Quote Originally Posted by Starjots View Post
    Another possibly negative outcome, assuming cheap dumb human driven bots. They (capitalists) could argue for importing mind labor from cheaper areas just as manufacturing often got outsourced to cheaper labor countries. Then everyone gets an average of $8 an hour and it costs 50K a year to go to college.
    Its not the 'capitalists' who are pushing this. it is the monopoly-capitalists. They are the oligarchs at the top who have taken control of the government and education system and who own the corporate media. They are not capitalists because they cannot accept any competition which is why they form MONOPOLIES to destroy the competition and why they use government to create tax rules and legislation that benefit them while disadvantaging the little guy and gal, Those oligarchs are looking for a way to create a society in which they are able to control everyone and everything and they intend to use technology to do that (a 'technocracy').

    Most humans will be viewed by them as a resource if they are useful or as a waste product to be disposed of if they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starjots View Post
    This is about dumb robots, but the Saudi robot thing certainly qualifies as ironic in my book, and you have to be careful when you say ironic around here.
    There will be no dumb robots. Everything is intended to be part of the 'internet of things'. All your household devices including your toothbrush, kettle, fridge and sex toys will all collect data about you and transmit that data to the artificial intelligence that is running the SMART grid. You will have zero privacy. Your SMART phone and SMART TV are already spying on you and your biomettrics including DNA, voice, retina and so on is already being mined

    All the content and meta data of all your communications are also being stored in a giant NSA supercomputer in Utah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starjots View Post
    True, we could end up one fucked up hot mess of bio and hardware. To project back 1000 years, such ideas could be the equivalent of the utopian peasant based society. Serf's up.
    fuedalism was a land grab pure and simple. Countries were invaded by a king and his army who then parcelled out the land to his fuedal barons. Each baron was granted a charter called a 'fue' which meant that they could manage an area of land for the king but would need to be ready to supply a certain number of armed knights whenever the king called on them. Fue's granted the baron various powers such a the power to raise taxes from that land and to have sole hunting rights. Castles were erected to enforce their fuedal power over the local populations.

    What we have seen happening in history in recent centuries is a move towards NEO-FUEDALISM where some powerful oligarchs have no taken over everything and hoarded the wealth through their capture of government. The SMART grid is the equivalent of the fuedal castle to keep you, the serf, under control

    Quote Originally Posted by Starjots View Post
    Since this is hypothetical, such a way of doing things would be one way to limit roles and development of AI to some extent. Require a human in the loop for most things. This is not the trend of things at the moment though.
    exactly which is why many scientists including stephen hawkings wrote a letter to governments warning them about the dangers of AI. But the people at the top are not listening

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