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Thread: On abortion

  1. #21
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    You mean condoms? Not nearly good enough for peace of mind. As a guy your only real options are abstinence or trusting the woman.
    The success rate of condoms, when used properly, is pretty damn good. 98%. Also, pair it with pull out method.

    Also the two B's--blowjobs and buttsex. I don't think I'm going to tell my kids that though.

  2. #22
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    The success rate of condoms, when used properly, is pretty damn good. 98%. Also, pair it with pull out method.

    Also the two B's--blowjobs and buttsex. I don't think I'm going to tell my kids that though.
    Condoms are only slightly more effective than the pull-out method, when used correctly.

    It seems like there's some big taboo nowadays about telling kids not to have sex, or telling people in general not to have sex if they aren't prepared for a pregnancy. I think there's a healthy middle ground where we don't have to be bible thumpers and we also don't have to throw up our hands and not expect anybody to control themselves. Promote masturbation if you want to be sex-positive. That's actually safe and you'll never end up paying child support or going to jail.

  3. #23
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    Condoms are only slightly more effective than the pull-out method, when used correctly.

    It seems like there's some big taboo nowadays about telling kids not to have sex, or telling people in general not to have sex if they aren't prepared for a pregnancy. I think there's a healthy middle ground where we don't have to be bible thumpers and we also don't have to throw up our hands and not expect anybody to control themselves. Promote masturbation if you want to be sex-positive. That's actually safe and you'll never end up paying child support or going to jail.
    Oh I will tell them that too. My parents tried that with me, and I wasn't going to listen. Sex drive is a biological imperative, I'm not figuring they would avoid it just because I said so. So I feel like I need to include the "...but if you decide to do it anyway" half of the conversation. I would feel like I was doing them a disservice if I didn't.

  4. #24
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Oh I will tell them that too. My parents tried that with me, and I wasn't going to listen. Sex drive is a biological imperative, I'm not figuring they would avoid it just because I said so. So I feel like I need to include the "...but if you decide to do it anyway" half of the conversation. I would feel like I was doing them a disservice if I didn't.
    Well don't tell them they can have peace of mind if they use condoms, that would be a disservice. Tell them that having sex is a huge risk and there's not much they can do about that, because that's the truth.

  5. #25
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Sex is risky, but there are lots of things you can do to manage and reduce risk. Equating sex with no birth control or sti prevention to sex with a condom is stupid.

  6. #26
    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Sex is risky, but there are lots of things you can do to manage and reduce risk. Equating sex with no birth control or sti prevention to sex with a condom is stupid.
    No, there aren't lots of things men can do to reduce the risk of sex. The only available birth control methods for men aren't very effective, and in your own words "the man's choice ends when he blows his load". Young men need to have that message reinforced much more than they need lessons on how to use a condom.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Space Invaders Champion Fitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pensive_pilgrim View Post
    No, there aren't lots of things men can do to reduce the risk of sex. The only available birth control methods for men aren't very effective, and in your own words "the man's choice ends when he blows his load". Young men need to have that message reinforced much more than they need lessons on how to use a condom.
    Jesus christ just get a vasectomy.

  8. #28
    Violator DaDaMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    The man's choice ends when he blows his load.
    If the mans choice ends when he blows his load then so does his obligation to support the rearing of the child, do you agree?

  9. #29
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDaMan View Post
    If the mans choice ends when he blows his load then so does his obligation to support the rearing of the child, do you agree?
    Why would one follow the other? He has his window of choice, it is on a different timeline for his partner due to biology.

    Once he blows his load, he will have to deal with the consequences that follow. The man has a moral obligation to all the people involved.

    The woman gets to decide how many people are going to be involved. If now there's a child, then he still has obligation to that child. However the only enforceable part of the obligation is usually the state asking for monetary support. So there is minimal forcible involvement, but I would argue he would have a moral obligation as the role of father to have an interest in helping out in physical, emotional, psychological, etc development as well by having a consistently present, positive relationship with the child.

  10. #30
    Homo siderius Sistamatic's Avatar
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    Are we talking about when his choice ends literally, or are we conjecturing about gender rights here...because biology sort of dictates the differences...legality and scientific advancements contribute, but even they are limited by certain realities. Because a man's choices...his ability to physically affect the outcome, literally ends once he's blown his load. It's out of his dick now. He no longer has any control over the consequences of the spilling of his seed.

    The female in question has limited control, if you want to call it that. Once pregnant, a woman has a potential person taking root inside of them. If she does nothing, if she ignores the problem and pretends it isn't happening, that person will still manifest right out of her crotch and expect to be fed for a couple of decades. That sucks if it isn't something you want. Without the option for abortion, a pregnant woman literally has no choice but to have this happen inside of her. And holy crap the anger if she didn't choose to have the sex that resulted in said pregnancy. I mean can you imagine the loss of control, the loss of power, to have a person force himself on you and to know that if you do nothing, this is going to happen, and if you do something, half the world is going to call you a murderer.

    The potential father has an entity that he may feel love for or obligation to and have no power to protect it, or if eliminating his obligation is his wish, he has no power to end that obligation. That sucks if baby momma doesn't choose what you want her to. This thing is half yours and you have no say in it's fate or in the fate of your future wages. That Sucks.

    But, girls and boys, sometimes reality sucks. Given that abortion is available, the level of choice each gender is given once the pregnancy is initiated is more about practicality and reality than it is about some sort of intentional gender equity issue. If abortion is made illegal, not only will women have no recourse once they are pregnant, but the number of child support payments and the number of permanent familial attachments to that crazy person you fucked in high school and the number of people who can't make higher education work for them, and the number of poor single parent families, and the number of wage garnishments, and the number of people with daddy issues, and the number of all manner of things that we should really want to see a lot less of all goes up.

    But if you really are truly concerned about making absolute for certain that you have control over whether or not you have offspring, there is only one thing to do... keep your fucking gametes away from each other until you both DECIDE to have a baby.
    Last edited by Sistamatic; 01-04-2018 at 08:43 PM.
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