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Thread: Guns Don't Kill People

  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoth View Post
    I wonder, what is more likely to lead to violence?

    The manufacture and distribution of weapons, or the systematic ignorance of cultural ill leading to the social disenfranchisement of a human being?

    Clearly the logical progression of eliminating weapons from society, firearms or otherwise, equates to a world where there would never be social animosity, and thus never an individual who might lash out.

    /sarcasm
    Couldn't it be both?

  2. #292
    Member Thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarydoor View Post
    Couldn't it be both?
    If a tiger kills a boy, do you only remove its claws and think it will never kill a boy again?

  3. #293
    Member Micawber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoth View Post
    If a tiger kills a boy, do you only remove its claws and think it will never kill a boy again?
    Personally I'd consult a zookeeper before things escalated that far, like woah.

  4. #294
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoth View Post
    If a tiger kills a boy, do you only remove its claws and think it will never kill a boy again?
    I think a more apt analogy would be: since tigers are dangerous, should we allow them to be kept as pets?

  5. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoth View Post
    I wonder, what is more likely to lead to violence?

    The manufacture and distribution of weapons, or the systematic ignorance of cultural ill leading to the social disenfranchisement of a human being?

    Clearly the logical progression of eliminating weapons from society, firearms or otherwise, equates to a world where there would never be social animosity, and thus never an individual who might lash out.

    /sarcasm
    in switzerland men do national service and when they finish they keep their assault weapon. They then remain ready in case they are called upon by their national government to defend switzerland

    not only that but they often inherit their fathers and grandfathers weapon too from their national service days

    needless to say the country is awash with guns

    But their government is giving them the guns see? not trying to take them away

    and as a result there aren't strange mass shootings that leave lots of unanswered questions

  6. #296
    malarkey oxyjen's Avatar
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    Switzerland’s homicide rate is among the lowest in the world, but the meme goes too far in saying it’s the very lowest. By the UN and WHO measures, the most recent Swiss intentional homicide rate is 0.6 deaths per population.

    Several countries — including Japan and Singapore, which have very strict gun laws, as well as Iceland and Luxembourg — posted lower rates than Switzerland in either one or both of the UN and WHO data sets.

    Laws

    The gun culture in Switzerland is altogether different. The country boasts the third-highest firearm ownership per capita rate, trailing the top-ranked United States and Yemen. Honduras is No. 88.

    A 2012 Time story about Switzerland’s gun culture notes how citizens hold their right to own guns as a patriotic duty, and Swiss children often join sharpshooting groups to hone their skills.

    But, again, Switzerland does not require "citizens to own guns."

    The government issues a gun to men for their mandatory military service, but the gun is taken home under "carefully controlled conditions without ammunition," said Mikton, the WHO officer who is also Swiss.

    "As soon as they have finished their military service — typically around 30 years of age — they have to return the gun," he said.

    Swiss gun laws are more strict than the post implies, though less tough than some other European Union countries. Swiss law requires mandatory background checks on civilian handgun purchases and licenses for the concealed carry of weapons, and it bans automatic weapons.

  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxyjen View Post
    Switzerland’s homicide rate is among the lowest in the world, but the meme goes too far in saying it’s the very lowest. By the UN and WHO measures, the most recent Swiss intentional homicide rate is 0.6 deaths per population.

    Several countries — including Japan and Singapore, which have very strict gun laws, as well as Iceland and Luxembourg — posted lower rates than Switzerland in either one or both of the UN and WHO data sets..
    switzerland is armed to the teeth

    but has japan or iceland had as much immigration for example of muslim immigrants some of which might then be involved in gun crime?

  8. #298
    Member Thoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senseye View Post
    I think a more apt analogy would be: since tigers are dangerous, should we allow them to be kept as pets?
    No, that would be a metaphor for: since guns are dangerous, should be allow people to have bullets?

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyng1 View Post
    People with semi-automatic rifles with large capacity magazines kill lots more people than people without guns...
    ^ Basically what I wanted to post.


    .................................................. .....

    You can't just pick the facts that support your point of view, ignore other facts, and act as though the big picture (people are the problem) and your cherry picked facts are completely unrelated. Yes, people kill people. A person with a shotgun cannot kill as many people as a person with a semi-automatic weapon -- that's a pretty important point to me.

    "People kill people" is a pithy, bumper sticker friendly way of stating your position on gun control. It's not an open question; it's more of a challenging, "prove me wrong" kind of comment.

    I always thought it was a logical fallacy, but not quite:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Bennett, PhD
    I wouldn't call it a fallacy unless I knew what the person was implying by the statement. If they respond that they are simply saying guns can be used for good and bad purposes, and it is the person that is responsible, then I would only partly agree. But this completely ignores the situational factors that lead to good people do bad things. The statement argues a good point, but it is only one point in a much larger debate.


    Here is a Facebook post that I made a while back that takes another perspective on this "argument."


    Guns don't kill people, people kill people. This is an incomplete argument that results in endless and pointless debates. What this needs is a "therefore," followed by a conclusion. For example, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Therefore, we should be focusing more on what makes people use guns violently and less on just banning the use of guns." This is very different from, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Therefore, anyone should be allowed to carry any kind of gun with no restrictions." Don't waste your time imagining the argument or point the other person is trying to make—ask for clarification.


    Bo Bennett, PhD
    Social Scientist, Business Consultant
    Coaching / Consulting > https://tinyurl.com/coachingbybo
    About My Businesses > http://www.archieboy.com
    About Me > http://www.bobennett.com
    Books I’ve Written > https://tinyurl.com/bosbooks
    Courses I Teach > https://tinyurl.com/boscourses
    Podcasts I Host > https://tinyurl.com/bospodcasts
    ^ https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/...ople_a_fallacy


  10. #300
    Member MoneyJungle's Avatar
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    What's the point of a school walkout if the whole thing is endorsed on every level of your schools? Lame!

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