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Thread: How can an N get along better with SJ?

  1. #1
    eyeing you rabbit warrior kitsune's Avatar
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    How can an N get along better with SJ?

    In every single class at my school, we are grouped randomly and forced to work together over the course of an entire semester towards a single grade. Sometimes, I get lucky and we're all Ns and I feel happy and inspired. Often enough though, I get stuck with an S. There's lots of misunderstanding, strife and I end up feeling extremely unmotivated. I end up just giving in and feeling my ideas are totally unappreciated.

    Since I can't change them, I'm looking for advice on how to change the way I communicate so that I can understand them better and make myself better understood.

    Any harmonious N - SJ relationships out there? How do you deal?

    "
    'I cannot play with you,' the fox said. 'I am not tamed.'" - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince (1943)

    REMINDER TO SELF WHEN DEALING WITH THE RABBIT WARRIOR: "All warfare is based on deception." - Sun Tzu,
    The Art of War

  2. #2
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    You can try to get them to take an MBTI test (not an easy thing to do). Then have them read their profiles and yours. Sometimes, this gives people insight into getting along with different personalities--but don't bet on it.

    OTOH, I think that group projects are BS, especially for INTP's. The instructors say it's so you can learn to work as a team. It's really because it gives them fewer projects to grade. They should stick to teaching their subjects and let each person be responsible only for his or her own work. INTP's are rarely good on a team.

  3. #3
    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    The few times I got to work with NTs on group projects, they were guys, and very reluctant to share decision making. I remember one group in particular which was all men except me, my project was selected as the group project but they voted a guy to direct it because they weren't about to be directed by a woman.

    It's just school. In hindsight I think I should have cared less about the shit I signed my name on.
    Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent. - Mao

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    fhtagn Rhu's Avatar
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    Frequently make group references to your ideas using the phrase, "outside the box" in a reverse-psychology context.

    For instance, present an idea starting with, "Would it be taking things too far outside the box if we..." and then explain your idea. A whole generation of SJs have been programmed to dismiss any idea that they don't understand unless it happens to be packaged outside the box.

    Speaking of preprogrammed responses to words or phrases, get to know this list. Supplementary list here. Start creating games where you cram as much of that as you can into your speech when dealing with SJs. The results tend to be pretty hilarious.
    Last edited by Rhu; 01-23-2014 at 11:25 PM.

  5. #5
    a fool on a journey pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    Think of it as an exercise in communicating with S types, which is probably something you'll want to be able to do effectively to get along well in the workplace. If you have a good idea you should be able to communicate it effectively. You won't be able to control every aspect but you should be able to contribute your input to the things you see as most important, and part of the challenge I think is also 'choosing your battles' and figuring out what part is most important to you to influence.

    That's what I've been learning from group projects, although there are definitely times where it's just a bullshit assignment and I'm happy to step back and let the SJs make all the decisions.

  6. #6
    Now we know... Asteroids Champion ACow's Avatar
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    1. Group projects are bullshit. Lets not beat around the bush.

    2. I can't really give any tips for getting along with SJ's. You're either going to have to lower yourself to their game/worldview, or just not interact with them, because they aren't capable of N-type thought. I choose the later whenever possible, and its interesting for me to note that my general friends/minimal-social circle natural ends up being all N's without any effort.

  7. #7
    Otaku
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    The few times I got to work with NTs on group projects, they were guys, and very reluctant to share decision making. I remember one group in particular which was all men except me, my project was selected as the group project but they voted a guy to direct it because they weren't about to be directed by a woman.

    It's just school. In hindsight I think I should have cared less about the shit I signed my name on.
    I had a similar experience. In the first programming group project I had I was the de facto leader, since no one else could really do anything for shit, but on paper we still had another guy's name as the leader. Yeah whatever.

    In the next project, I worked with one of the overachievers and his friends. At first, I contributed most of the ideas, which I thought by the end of that session we had decided to use. He then arbitrarily decided we were going to use an unnecessarily complicated framework to manage data even though he asked me to take care of it, effectively booting me out for a while as I learned how to use it. Then, when that didn't work, he went ahead and designed the interface by himself, going out of his way to do something different than what I proposed, which looked objectively much uglier than the other groups who did exactly as I said. Near the end, I was locked out of the shared SVN version, which could have been a mistake but I doubt it. If I could I would've changed almost everything about the end product, but I gave up caring.

  8. #8
    sane in insane places kali's Avatar
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    One of my best friends is ESTJ. We're total antitheses. I think we get along because I can openly criticise her dumbass views on life, and in return she criticises mine, nothing is suppressed.

    We're going skydiving together on Monday for her birthday!!

  9. #9
    dormant jigglypuff's Avatar
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    one of my best friends evar was an istj. i was no match for her down-to-earth logic and when i fucked up she always had my back. she liked talking to me 'cause to her it felt like a shortcut to learning. we both had a dark side, and a really compatible dark sense of humor.

    it's a hit or miss.

  10. #10
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    Give them tangible proof when you want to convince them. That way, you don't waste time articulating reasoning that they are just going to ignore anyway.

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