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Thread: Jordan Peterson

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Jordan Peterson

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinny View Post
    I've been watching some stuff about Peterson today.

    I don't like him... Seems to have an agenda and doesn't seem sincere... I listened to somebody else picking apart his religious beliefs, with full quotes included, and Peterson seemed to be talking out of his arse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I listened to a long talk by him once and I didn't think he was fit to teach at a university level, but I don't mean to offend anyone who enjoys him.

    This talk about dreams is sort of like coffee shop talk here, but then this society is very heavily psychoanalyzed, extremely Freudian; maybe more than any other.
    Quote Originally Posted by jigglypuff View Post
    i’m so tired of hearing about him fucking everywhere since his ideas are always presented as self-help for the alt-right... his fans are annoying as fuck.


    This deserves its own thread.

    I hosted a philosophical discussion of Jordan Peterson's new book at the state library a few weeks back. His ideas definitely inspire good solid NT discussion (a joy I never take for granted). I also think the way he presents his ideas is somewhat juvenile and clumsy, which contributes to his widespread appeal.

    I think he's gaining a lot of traction because he seems to be the only voice against the prevailing post-modernist idea that there is no objective truth - that we live in a world of equally-true perspectives. Post-modernism is the foundational basis for many controversial modern leftist movements - trans rights, equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunities, even stuff like HAES.

    He also appeals to young, insecure males as a sort of father figure. Why is this the case? Basically he's telling kids that there is a natural hierarchical structure that is driven by natural selection. He tells kids how to play along with the game that nature intended. It's Nietzsche, diluted. This appeals to alt righters and offends regressive leftists. The regressive left, I find, is not at all against unequal power relations. The regressive left instead wants to establish a dominance hierarchy based on identity politics.

    The main problem I have with Peterson is his strong commitment to biological determinism. Humans and human psychology can't just be merely reduced to biological and evolutionary imperatives... It's certainly a significant drive in how we behave both on an individual and societal level. But truthfully, we're more than just lobsters.
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    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kari View Post
    This deserves its own thread.

    I hosted a philosophical discussion of Jordan Peterson's new book a few weeks back. His ideas definitely inspire good solid NT discussion (a joy I never take for granted). I also think the way he presents his ideas is somewhat juvenile and clumsy, which contributes to his widespread appeal.

    I think he's gaining a lot of traction because he seems to be the only voice against the prevailing post-modernist idea that there is no objective truth and we live in a world of equally-true perspectives.

    He also appeals to young, insecure males as a sort of father figure. Why is this the case? Basically he's telling kids that there is a natural hierarchical structure that is driven by natural selection. He tells kids how to play along with the game that nature intended. It's Nietzsche, diluted. This appeals to alt righters and offends regressive leftists. The regressive left, I find, is not at all against unequal power relations. The regressive left instead wants to establish a dominance hierarchy based on identity politics.

    The main problem I have with Peterson is his strong commitment to biological determinism. Humans and human psychology can't just be merely reduced to biological and evolutionary imperatives... It's certainly a significant drive in how we behave both on an individual and societal level. But we're more than just lobsters.
    He's completely contradictory. On the one hand he says there's "many & multiple truths" on the other he's frequently said there's only a couple of truths - like the way he likes to fall back on Darwinian philosophy of survival , like that's the only truth.

    He's clearly paid to pander to the alt right.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kari View Post
    I also think the way he presents his ideas is somewhat juvenile and clumsy, which contributes to his widespread appeal.
    I recognize the "clumsiness" but that's not my problem with him. Hell I like Zizek; despite his wild digressions, he always manages to slip some original thought into what he's saying. Peterson seems like the kind of guy who can't talk about anything at length before revealing a shallow grasp of the subject matter. While at times mildly entertaining, I definitely don't find him insightful, and I can't imagine his mind could be fertile ground for any ground-breaking thought. But then I can't imagine many Canadians in that role, probably because they live in Canada I guess.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kari View Post
    The regressive left, I find, is not at all against unequal power relations. The regressive left instead wants to establish a dominance hierarchy based on identity politics.
    maybe stop lumping in leftists with ID politics liberals? i assume that's what you mean.

    and you know who else wants to establish dominance based on identity? white supremacists. lots on the alt-right. lots of psychologically and economically vulnerable people being drawn to a """Voice of Reason""" that they so desperately need right now.

    His ideas definitely inspire good solid NT discussion (a joy I never take for granted).
    out of all thinkers?
    Cut out all these exclamation points. An exclamation point is like laughing at your own joke.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    OMG. Haha:

    Only a Country Like Canada Could Produce a Guy Like Jordan Peterson

    Canada is home to many more Jordan Petersons than Justin Trudeaus. Mr. Peterson is — to use one of his favorite terms — something of a national archetype, the default setting of the Canadian male: a dull but stern dad, who, under a facade of apparent normalcy and common sense, conceals a reserve of barely contained hostility toward anyone who might rock the boat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    I recognize the "clumsiness" but that's not my problem with him. Hell I like Zizek; despite his wild digressions, he always manages to slip some original thought into what he's saying. Peterson seems like the kind of guy who can't talk about anything at length before revealing a shallow grasp of the subject matter. While at times mildly entertaining, I definitely don't find him insightful, and I can't imagine his mind could be fertile ground for any ground-breaking thought. But then I can't imagine many Canadians in that role, probably because they live in Canada I guess.
    he's not meant to be insightful... he's there just to make people doubt and think about the whole brainwashing left is imposing worldwide
    plus, dude; how deeper can we get into deep stuff anyways?
    the void might be filled with AI philosophy in the years to come

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    know nothing pensive_pilgrim's Avatar
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    He's not that interesting except as a contrast to the types of leftists that inspired the alt-right. That "so what you're saying is" interview is iconic of the times we live in. Most people with half a brain don't have the courage to call out the left on their bullshit, or aren't as capable of keeping their cool and not letting their words get twisted around. Most of the people with the courage to "tell it like it is" will just let themselves get painted into the evil racist sexist nazi effigy, and then they can be easily shoved out of the mainstream. It's entertaining to watch them try to do that to Peterson, like in that interview.

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    For all his hand waving toward evolution, he doesn't seem interested in evolving.
    Most of time, when people ask why something terrible happened, they don't realize they are looking for someone to blame.

    --Meditations on Uncertainty Vol ξ(x)

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    I heard a podcast a while back from sam harris where he talked with peterson about some funny ideas. He tried to say something like "what's true is what's good for you", which I saw as obvious nonsense. And Harris, I think, correctly showed that it would be very confusing for someone to go around talking like that.

    I thought about it more afterwords, and even though he doesn't say this, he gave me an interesting idea that if you assume that a human isn't a rational agent (clearly humans aren't), maybe the definitions of words and concepts matters to how you will live your life. Like, it may be the case that holding up scientific truth as a thing (and therefore implicitly as a value) that there are harmful affects on how you will live your life. Like I said, he didn't actually say this as far as I remember, so I hesitate to attribute the idea to him.... But I think this is an idea that seems to be underneath the things that make him popular. That you and everyone else in society are a highly complicated biological machine and things that you might think are unrelated to your behavior/ to society, are not unrelated.

    Other than that, I think he dabbles in a lot of rambling metaphor and hyperbole.
    Violence is never the right answer, unless used against heathens and monsters.

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    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


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