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Thread: Chronic fatigue syndrome

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Chronic fatigue syndrome




    Does anyone have any experience with CFS in themselves or those around them?

    It's such a mysterious "disease" to me and I'm honestly so skeptical. It must be psychosomatic. "There is no cure for this condition."

    My BF and my close friend both have chronic fatigue symptoms. They're always tired even after resting the whole day. So obviously I am interested in helping them overcome this. I'm trying to think of common denominators between them. They both work in very demanding corporate environments, they both care A LOT about money and saving money (cheapskates to the point of senselessness), even though they earn quite a lot. I think that has something to do with it.
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    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    I don't know anyone who has it (not counting someone who claims to have everything), but from what I've read, concrete knowledge about the source of these symptoms is very thin. So I think it's pretty much inevitable that doctors' theories about the source of the symptoms will stem largely from preexisting beliefs rather than reasoned judgments.

    Wikipedia also suggests a psychosomatic role and that would intuitively make sense to me. But I also don't see how the potential that it's psychosomatic would make it a 'disease' rather than a disease. Everyone experiences psychosomatic effects. I don't think it's surprising that these effects might occasionally turn into clusters of symptoms that are impossible to control by willpower, in some cases, and in other cases difficult to control without professional aid.

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    Hasta Siempre Madrigal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kari View Post
    they both care A LOT about money and saving money (cheapskates to the point of senselessness), even though they earn quite a lot.
    Chronic greed syndrome.

    My best friend is a cheapskate, she will walk in the baking sun for blocks in search of a water bottle that costs 15 cents less. But she's a struggling artist, so I put up with the shit that doesn't make any bloody sense (I sometimes need therapy by the time I get home, though). But I could never tolerate it from a boyfriend, because it's just a constant reminder that experiences with you aren't worth the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hephaestus View Post
    Heh. We've been here years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kari View Post
    My BF and my close friend both have chronic fatigue symptoms. They're always tired even after resting the whole day. So obviously I am interested in helping them overcome this. I'm trying to think of common denominators between them. They both work in very demanding corporate environments, they both care A LOT about money and saving money (cheapskates to the point of senselessness), even though they earn quite a lot. I think that has something to do with it.
    I agree that their demanding work environment and concern with money may have something to do with it. If you want to help it might be worth purchasing an at home cortisol test kit for your bf. Depending on the results, you could help your bf implement a stress management program or convince your bf to visit a psychologist.

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    I think chronic fatigue syndrome is real. I think the medical establishment tends to dismiss any condition they can't treat as psychosomatic because they all have big egos and the idea that they've failed at something is unthinkable so it must be someone else's fault, and the easiest person to blame is the patient. When I think back to all the kids I went to school with, a ton of the ones that went off to med school just thought their shit didn't stink, which kind of makes sense because to even get in the door to an MD program you have to be the best of the best of the best.

    There is a theory floating around the medical community lately that a lot of these undiagnosable and untreatable autoimmune diseases are due to unidentified genetic mutations. That would explain why they can't pin down a cause or cure. It also makes more sense than assuming someone just wants to lead a life of misery for the attention. Though I'm sure there are people who do it for the attention too.

    However kali, I think your bf is just burned out from work. That's a thing too, and a very common one at that.

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    My sister in law...not sure if she was formally diagnosed...but she basically suffered from it for years. For her, though, I think it was related to underlying conditions. She was treated for Lyme disease about a year and a half ago. Afaik, her symptoms started with the extreme fatigue a long long time ago, and progressed to other sporadic symptoms that would come and go...everything from seizures to pericarditis(swelling around the heart). She's not a greedy type, though...or a chronic workaholic...
    ...the origin of emotional sickness lay in people’s belief that they were their personalities...
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    mmm...
    technically i've been feeling tired most of the time for the last 4-5 months but i think that's just because i changed my sleeping habits...
    a year ago i used to sleep 8-9 hours per day and falling asleep was super easy, going to bed past 1 am was really strange.
    nowadays yeah, 50% of days feels more like i was lying at bed instead of having a deep sleep session.
    so this has to be just a consequence of that, not just "hey i'm tired".
    anyways i did take a blood test to check my overall status and everything is perfect apparently, only high thing was bilirubin but it wasn't even high, just near the limit of normal levels.
    it might be related to their emotions or existential concerns... i dunno? sometimes it's not easy to talk about such things and sometimes you don't even notice them or blind yourself to it.

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    what’s the behavior/daily routine of someone with CHS?

    and isn’t your bf traveling now? how does it work if you’re traveling? staying inside all day?

    i think if it’s really bad it’s best to go to a doctor to rule out underlying conditions, if that hasn’t been done already.
    Cut out all these exclamation points. An exclamation point is like laughing at your own joke.

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    creator kari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blorg View Post
    I don't know anyone who has it (not counting someone who claims to have everything), but from what I've read, concrete knowledge about the source of these symptoms is very thin. So I think it's pretty much inevitable that doctors' theories about the source of the symptoms will stem largely from preexisting beliefs rather than reasoned judgments.

    Wikipedia also suggests a psychosomatic role and that would intuitively make sense to me. But I also don't see how the potential that it's psychosomatic would make it a 'disease' rather than a disease. Everyone experiences psychosomatic effects. I don't think it's surprising that these effects might occasionally turn into clusters of symptoms that are impossible to control by willpower, in some cases, and in other cases difficult to control without professional aid.
    In the case that it is psychosomatic, seeing it as a disease worsens the symptoms because it makes the sufferer think it's out of their control. I believe in neuroplasticity insofar as "impossible to control by willpower" just doesn't make sense to me. "very very very hard to control by willpower alone" does make sense though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madrigal View Post
    Chronic greed syndrome.

    My best friend is a cheapskate, she will walk in the baking sun for blocks in search of a water bottle that costs 15 cents less. But she's a struggling artist, so I put up with the shit that doesn't make any bloody sense (I sometimes need therapy by the time I get home, though). But I could never tolerate it from a boyfriend, because it's just a constant reminder that experiences with you aren't worth the money.
    Yeah my BF is like that... when we were in Thailand he would haggle with vendors over a bottle of water. A bottle literally costs 20 cents AUD there. Like calm down bro you're just saving 5 cents

    To be honest though I like that he's so frugal, I find the discipline really attractive. I can't tolerate people who are reckless with money.

    Quote Originally Posted by rokki balbotox View Post
    I agree that their demanding work environment and concern with money may have something to do with it. If you want to help it might be worth purchasing an at home cortisol test kit for your bf. Depending on the results, you could help your bf implement a stress management program or convince your bf to visit a psychologist.
    > Does this kit cost more than $2? If so no go. Maybe they offer it at the doctors, if so it'll be free. I'll look into it next time I see my GP and I'll probably test myself too.

    Quote Originally Posted by starla View Post
    I think chronic fatigue syndrome is real. I think the medical establishment tends to dismiss any condition they can't treat as psychosomatic because they all have big egos and the idea that they've failed at something is unthinkable so it must be someone else's fault, and the easiest person to blame is the patient. When I think back to all the kids I went to school with, a ton of the ones that went off to med school just thought their shit didn't stink, which kind of makes sense because to even get in the door to an MD program you have to be the best of the best of the best.

    There is a theory floating around the medical community lately that a lot of these undiagnosable and untreatable autoimmune diseases are due to unidentified genetic mutations. That would explain why they can't pin down a cause or cure. It also makes more sense than assuming someone just wants to lead a life of misery for the attention. Though I'm sure there are people who do it for the attention too.

    However kali, I think your bf is just burned out from work. That's a thing too, and a very common one at that.
    Yeah it's very possible I'm just conflating conditions. Why is it still so goddamn mysterious, surely there have been a million studies done.

    I was just leaning towards the psychosomatic explanation because a few years ago, I was experiencing fatigue problems. I visited my gp and he suggested that I had depression. I was in such a weak frame of mind that honestly the suggestion alone created a positive feedback loop that made me develop depressive + exhaustion symptoms! I strongly believe that a lot of depressive and fatigue disorders are iatrogenic. It's thoughts like "why am I so damn tired all the time" that actually cause your body to be even more tired... it sounds woo-woo but reality does conform to your thoughts. I read a study the other day that just thinking you had a good night's rest makes your body feel more rested...

    Quote Originally Posted by PureViolence View Post
    mmm...
    technically i've been feeling tired most of the time for the last 4-5 months but i think that's just because i changed my sleeping habits...
    a year ago i used to sleep 8-9 hours per day and falling asleep was super easy, going to bed past 1 am was really strange.
    nowadays yeah, 50% of days feels more like i was lying at bed instead of having a deep sleep session.
    so this has to be just a consequence of that, not just "hey i'm tired".
    anyways i did take a blood test to check my overall status and everything is perfect apparently, only high thing was bilirubin but it wasn't even high, just near the limit of normal levels.
    it might be related to their emotions or existential concerns... i dunno? sometimes it's not easy to talk about such things and sometimes you don't even notice them or blind yourself to it.
    Sounds like good ol' sleep deprivation, how many hours of sleep p/n do you get now?

    Quote Originally Posted by jigglypuff View Post
    what’s the behavior/daily routine of someone with CHS?

    and isn’t your bf traveling now? how does it work if you’re traveling? staying inside all day?

    i think if it’s really bad it’s best to go to a doctor to rule out underlying conditions, if that hasn’t been done already.
    He's still doing heaps of hiking of surfing but he's just exhausted all the time I think

    As for going to the doctors, yeah that sounds like a good idea. I know if I suggest it to my friend though he'll say "nah I'm too tired to go to the doctors"
    I fucking hate the cold! - Wim Hof

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    I went through a period a few years ago when I was fatigued all the time, went to the docs and they diagnosed me with anemia and general stress.

    I took Iron supplements for a while.. think I got the all clear of amenia eventually, but I'm so bad with medical appointment years pass before I ever check on things properly.

    I could use a full body assessment at present.

    (Something that's practically impossible to get on the NHS - they will only deal with 1 ailment at a time - and when you've got 10 ailments, all those appointments seem daunting, and it's not wonder so many die through medical negligence)

    I've been wondering about a similiar condition called Fibromyalgia.. when I used to do the DWP's work (Department for Work & Pensions) , there would be some clients claiming "sick benefits" , and some of them (small minority) were for this condition Fibromyalgia, and I was convinced that they were just lazy ass benefit frauds. Especially when they regarded the checks & balances with contempt.

    But fast forward a few later and I'm starting to sympathise with the undiagnosed disorders. I'm walking around with a few myself, and they're beginning to make life hard.

    I just hurt everywhere, at least it feels like I do.

    My hips always ache, my coccyx is tender, I've a lower herniated disk and frequent sciatica, my higher SI joints are inflamed and bulging, I've got more tension in my upper back than than a show down between The Bride & Bill (KillBill), and all the muscles in my legs just ache from top to bottom, after pretty much any activity.

    I am still pretty active despite all that, you just become accustomed to the pain. Actually resting might be good, but I can't sit still for too long anyways.

    I wouldn't bother taking time off work for it because 1) I'd be out doing something else, if not working 2) I can't afford not to work. (Victorian Era 2.0 here in England).

    I'm just reminded of the over-all picture that the human race has become diseased, as a result of the sick symptoms of society.

    Couple of headlines and stats came out recently (from memory) 1) It's estimated that 1 in 2 adults in Britain will develop cancer at some point 2) It's estimated that most of us will start developing degenerative diseases such as Dementia earlier, likely in our late 50s & early 60s 3) My generation isn't looking to retire until the age of 78 by Tory plans.

    Everytime I go to the doctors will a complaint, they offer me Ibuprofen, paracetamol and naproxen (helps with nerve pain).

    I accept a certain number these to use in desperate times, but I often decline, reminding them they are not keeping track of how often they are prescribing these for various issues, and cumulatively they would inadvertently kill me. (Which has happened here a fair few times).

    I ask them to get to the root cause, the underlying issue. I don't want to mask the pain, I want to fix it. They fob me off.

    The medical establishment is as corrupt as any other, and a lot more methodical in their callous methods.

    *Apocalyptic voice*

    "we're all gonna die!
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


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