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Thread: How Trump Hurt America

  1. #11
    Cooler than Jesus
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    I earned a lot of money on the stock market I guess. I think state governments have more of an immediate impact on people's lives. Obvious exceptions are things like wars or widesweeping policy changes like Obamacare.

  2. #12
    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
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    For the most part, it's an issue of the Republican party having full control over the federal government again, not so much Trump-qua-Trump in isolation.


    E.g. their "tax reform" bill is a whole lot of fuckery that's going to balloon the national debt, their "banking reform" bill basically just removes the few minor protective measures that were instituted after the 'Great Recession' in 2008 to ward off the risk of another one, Trump's Attorney General is a Kool-Aid-drinking true believer in the Drug War intent on undoing Obama's policy of benign neglect toward states legalizing cannabis--things like that.


    Trump is an unusually embarrassing figurehead for all that (though really, I don't see how he's that much worse than fucking Bush) but overall it's the same general reactionary neoliberal agenda that the party has had ever since the Reagan era.

    It's all going to be fucking disastrous over a timeline more on the order of the next decade or two, but the bulk of the effects aren't necessarily there to be felt yet right now.



    Supposedly Trump's ability to win the election despite being openly endorsed by overt white-supremacist and neo-fascist organizations has had an inspirational effect on them that has caused a spike in the frequency of terrorism on their parts, but to me this seems difficult to conclusively nail down as a specific causal relationship between one and the other.

    (Could be they were already getting larger and more active, and that's why they were able to get a fellow-traveler elected president, rather than the other way around, or for that matter it could be a much more complicated feedback-loop sort of phenomenon, which is the one I'd guess likely to be the most accurate explanation.)


    Then, as far as "America" or "Americans" in a broader sense, there is of course the whole issue of immigration policy. This is definitely having serious effects right now on a lot of people who have been living in the US and integrated into our society for a very long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

  3. #13
    Member rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I don't know about Trump but this intense tribalism worries me.

  4. #14
    No Thank You Blorg's Avatar
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    My dad has an American green card and didn't consider that it would be an issue for him to spend more than a year in Europe with me. But he went to the embassy and they basically told him that it would have been fine in a bygone era (it's one of those gray areas where you normally just need a good reason to stay a while, like family), but he shouldn't take his chances because of the new administration. They said he should return asap if he wants to keep his green card. My parents would have had to leave anyway sooner or later, but it's annoying to have the process sped up.

    It also seems to be a conversation stopper. I met with some Americans in Prague a few months ago and started talking about politics and one of them nodded to the other and said "he's a Trump supporter." as in, "don't go there." It wasn't even like I said anything offensive, but I guess we're not even allowed to talk about it.

    When I was in the US, there was that edge too. Everyone still says "hi-how-are-you," but it seems falser when you have the feeling that there is this big potential conversation stopper hanging over everything. Small talk rises in proportion and big talk becomes scarcer. I think it could make people lonelier. And American culture (especially in the small towns near where I grew up) already seems so atomized, at least compared to where I am now.

  5. #15
    singularity precursor Limes's Avatar
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    Let's show some respect to the leader of the free world and refer to him correctly as big daddy wing wang.

  6. #16
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    I don't notice the apocalyptic change some people said would happen. I still think Dubya was a worse president.

    He's done wonders for the Palestinians, though, what with the moving of the American embassy and all.

    Everybody assumes he'll be impeached, and when they say that, they usually say that as though that means he will be removed from office (that's not what impeachment means). But a lot of Democrats have said that if they win back the house, they won't pursue impeachment.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
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    Trump seems to be mostly about two things:

    1) Keeping his name in the press
    2) Tearing down anything Obama related (maybe this is more of a Republican thing)

    He hasn't seemed to accomplished much of note. I don't think a whole lot of progress has been made on the wall. He's done some dismantling of Obamacare, but I don't think he 'great' replacement healthcare plan has been passed (whatever it might be). Some tax cuts for the rich, a bunch of military spending, and loosening of environmental laws are some other things I think he managed to actually implement, but the impacts from those actions will take a long time to be felt (in the way of larger deficits and a dirtier environment).

    It's kind of like your experience in Argentina, the socialists make a hash of things, you finally throw them out, and the new guy has to deal with all the shit. Same will happen in the US, but it may still be 6 years in coming.

  8. #18
    凸(ಠ_ರೃ )凸 stuck's Avatar
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    Not much on the ground yet beyond the emboldened right crowing about how great everything is going to be if we just give it a chance.

    The future holds the result of a larger deficit, gutted environmental regulation, the implosion of health care, no investment in infrastructure. Oh yeah but I'll personally pay slightly less taxes. Too bad I don't have a father leaving me +5 million dollars in an inheritance, that's where the rubber really hits the road.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Sinny's Avatar
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    The best thing Trump's administration ever done was interrupt the Left wing international neoliberalism of the Clintons & Obamas.... I mean they were preparing for some pretty big moves post Benghazi.

    Trump's administration stalled them, at least.

    But I don't think what they have planned (for a greater Israel) is any better.

    Neither side actually gives a shit about America. America is just a military pawn in Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard.
    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard.

    ~ Robert Jackson, Statesman (1892-1954)


  10. #20
    Pull the strings! Architect's Avatar
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    I'm independent and have voted left and right in the past. Here's my perspective, both personally and observed. In parenthesis is a note of where the perspective 'scope' - who it applies to

    • (Upper middle class) There's a daily grind on our psyche's from the mania in the Whitehouse and the flaunting of the norms of the presidency. My UMC friends are distressed and counting the days until the midterms, if not the next election.
    • (Liberals) My liberal friends are mostly scared/bothered he'll put us in a war, outraged over him generally, and are worried about how we're being viewed internationally
    • (Conservative) Rank and file conservatives have gone over the dark side. My conservative friends either happily or reluctantly voted for him, but now he's in office and bullying everybody they're happy.


    In terms of domestic policy little has been accomplished, with two exceptions

    • (Tax laws) AFAIK our tax rates have gone down a bit, running a projection on my taxes shows a possible decrease of about $1k. On the flip side there are multiple benefits to business owners - being one I'm looking forward to seeing what benefits I can get there (I heard that it's particularly true for LLC type businesses which we aren't, but anyhow I haven't had a moment to dig into it).
    • (Healthcare) The Republicans are trying to cripple healthcare any way they can. Ultimately it has the effect of encouraging us all to become wage slaves, as employer supported plans will again be the only way to have healthcare.


    Being in California we're generally more liberal than most (though there are plenty of conservatives around). It's still a shock to see his name on WH sponsored things. For example there's a Presidential academic success award for grade schoolers. If you get good grades you get a certificate endorsed (not personally of course) from the President. I went to the middle school graduation of a nephew, and when they announced the "President Trump Academic Excellence" awards there was an uncomfortable titter. Well more than that, people looked around in a bit of uncomfortable shock, it felt dirty and demeaning to have him endorsing our kids academics, not least because by all reports he has the intellectual stamina of a kindergartner.

    I keep reminding myself that he proves the strength of our system, in that a idiot like him could get elected, and that he has as little control as he does.

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