Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 15232425
Results 241 to 244 of 244

Thread: Separating kids from parents at the border

  1. #241
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    mosquito-infested hell
    Posts
    3,222
    My perspective is that central America has been our own backyard and dumping ground for generations. Itís only right that we take responsibility for the consequences. Having said that, it seems really odd that we should not be able to use immigration policy as a deterrent to illegal immigration. Legal nitpicking outside, what do you think is the best alternative approach at this point, and what organizations do you think are most actively and practically fighting for that?

  2. #242
    Minister of Love Roger Mexico's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    New World
    Posts
    3,444
    Quote Originally Posted by TeresaJ View Post
    My perspective is that central America has been our own backyard and dumping ground for generations. It’s only right that we take responsibility for the consequences. Having said that, it seems really odd that we should not be able to use immigration policy as a deterrent to illegal immigration. Legal nitpicking outside, what do you think is the best alternative approach at this point, and what organizations do you think are most actively and practically fighting for that?

    Well the issue in this case is that the prosecution process is being used as the punishment that's supposed to deter people--meaning it's aiming to punish people before they've stood trial and been convicted of anything.


    Obviously a country can make rules limiting who's allowed to migrate to it, but if you believe you've caught someone violating those rules, the person is still entitled to due process. If your demonstrable intent is to deter people from even trying to immigrate, not by means of the risk of punishment upon conviction of illegal entry but rather by means of deliberately making the conditions they'll be living in during the pre-trial apprehension and detention process so harsh that they constitute a deterrent punishment in and of themselves, this is blatantly unconstitutional. It falls under the legal rubric of "malicious prosecution" and constitutes an attempt to prevent people from exercising their right to a trial, by punishing them prematurely before they've been convicted of anything.


    Which is why it matters that there's proof of this deterrence strategy being what relevant officials consciously intended to do. Being in jail is obviously shitty under most circumstances, but this doesn't make it illegal to keep people in jail while they await trial. However, it is illegal to deliberately make a pre-trial detention more shitty than it would otherwise be if your specific intent in doing so is to turn the pre-trial detention process into a means of punishing someone for an offense which they have not yet been convicted of.


    It's especially egregious in this case because it appears that the main goal was to target asylum seekers--i.e. people who very well may be entitled to residency visas under US domestic laws, as well as international laws--in an effort to prevent them from being able to assert their valid legal claims in a court hearing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ptah View Post
    No history, no exposition, no anecdote or argument changes the invariant: we are all human beings, and some humans are idiots.

  3. #243
    Senior Member Senseye's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,064
    I think maybe the whole notion of "asylum seekers" should be re-examined and possibly discarded. I'm pretty sure it's just a way to game the system and bypass the legal immigration process probably 90%+ of the time.

    Come in through legal channels or don't come in at all. That's the way I would do things. I'd probably be OK with the expense of shipping them back to their country of origin if they do show up (as opposed to warehousing them in camps).

    Yeah, yeah, I know. The bleeding hearts would lose their shit over the few who would actually be persecuted by tyrannical governments back in their homeland (as opposed to just finding themselves back in the same old dump). But it's their house they let go to rot.

  4. #244
    TJ TeresaJ's Avatar
    Type
    INTP
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    mosquito-infested hell
    Posts
    3,222
    RM, do you have any response to the practical part of my question?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •